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Leather Quality and Properties - Page 4

post #46 of 1313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Man Of Lint View Post

When you say #2, what are you referring to? 2H (hard) or 2B (soft) or something other?.
Last time I was in art school a typical #2 pencil was considered HB, the middle of the hard/soft graphite gamut. The most versatile of graphite grades.

But I digress... smile.gif
post #47 of 1313
Quote:
Originally Posted by clee1982 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post

I was sad enough to read through Elmer Bliss' patent application for a shoe breaking in device. Why do shoe shops not offer a 'hand' version of this, for new shoes? I was given advice about bending shoes from VegTan and wurger on this but have yet to find it on any other site or in shoemakers' video clips. 

Maybe something to do with return policy?

Exactly, most stores have a good return policy that covers new shoes that don't have creases.

Imagine if a salesperson bend your shoes for you and then after trying on at home, the customer wants to return them and said the sales bent them. It's just too much complications, and even yourself didn't want to do it straight away when I first suggested, had to wait for more justifications and proof.
post #48 of 1313
Quote:
Originally Posted by JubeiSpiegel View Post

Last time I was in art school a typical #2 pencil was considered HB, the middle of the hard/soft graphite gamut. The most versatile of graphite grades.

But I digress... smile.gif

You digressed because I digressed after Patrick digressed, making him the clever one for setting the trap.
I had a different baptismal. ...engineering, in a time when drawings were done by hand. From there I learned the industrial applications of paper, linen, mylar, ink pens and pencils. There was probably little cross-over to the art world proper so thank you for clarifying.
post #49 of 1313
Thread Starter 
A glazing jack and a glass cylinder. A glass jar of shoe cream would be a substitute.




Edited by VegTan - 7/11/13 at 3:35am
post #50 of 1313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Man Of Lint View Post

You digressed because I digressed after Patrick digressed, making him the clever one for setting the trap.
I had a different baptismal. ...engineering, in a time when drawings were done by hand. From there I learned the industrial applications of paper, linen, mylar, ink pens and pencils. There was probably little cross-over to the art world proper so thank you for clarifying.

Traditional is still the best in my opinion (not unlike shoe making). Now a days, talent is scarcely needed in too many technical/artistic fields. But yet again, i digress...
post #51 of 1313
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dibadiba View Post

I'd like to add that in the case of shoes, the marks on shoulders may seem to be unsightly. Not using this part of the hide is understandable.
With that said, shoulder leather is a good cut of the hide, and the markings make for excellent character when used in bags and belts.

Yes, very attractive oiled bullhide shoulder.

http://silentree.at.webry.info/201302/article_14.html


http://hukurokuju.com/blog/2013/07/10/farmerrios-of-mercedes/

Edited by VegTan - 7/11/13 at 3:10am
post #52 of 1313
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

 

Note that in the picture, he pressed ever so slightly.  It's not like hes bending the leather all the way in/out.

 

Carmina produces mediocre shoes using mediocre materials on mediocre designs.  If anything I would rather get Alden or AE for the same price point but with much more character; or bite the bullet to get Vass at $100 more.

I'm in Spain; there's no way Vass would be just $100 more, and AE is more expensive than Carmina here. However, while the construction of Carmina shoes has never looked great to me, I thought they used decent materials. Still disappointed, because basically they are the only "high-end" shoe I can afford and actually try on before buying frown.gif

post #53 of 1313

A Fine Pair of Shoes has a Abbeyhorn bone folder on sale at 99p.  They describe it as follows:

 

 

'Made from a natural material these bone folders area must for any craftsperson or leather worker, smooths leather/ folds paper...'  If someone wanted a (very cheap) substitute for deer bone, would this be it?

 

post #54 of 1313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post

A Fine Pair of Shoes has a Abbeyhorn bone folder on sale at 99p.  They describe it as follows:


'Made from a natural material these bone folders area must for any craftsperson or leather worker, smooths leather/ folds paper...'  If someone wanted a (very cheap) substitute for deer bone, would this be it?



 


A good quality bone folder thats actually made of bone is a very useful leather work tool, its part of how we finish edges. I also use one for my long riding boots that are made in the traditional flesh side out manner to burnish out scratches

Charlie
post #55 of 1313

A lifetime ago, when I worked in a print shop, we used one of these to produce a sharp edge to folded paper or card. As with the deer bone issue, I am still not sure why we needed to use a bone for this.

post #56 of 1313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post

A lifetime ago, when I worked in a print shop, we used one of these to produce a sharp edge to folded paper or card. As with the deer bone issue, I am still not sure why we needed to use a bone for this.

They are from the book binding industry originally AFAIK, perhaps bone was cleaner than metal/wood which would have been the alternatives at the time?

Charlie
post #57 of 1313

Yes, the bone would have been cleaner. I suspect that metal would tend to tear the paper. You needed to be able to press quite hard on the paper/card but not tear it or leave marks on it.   I suppose that, over time, printers found that the bone was just the right density for doing the job. Again, a bit like using a deer bone on leather. I note that bones for printers and bookbinders are still available on Amazon. 

post #58 of 1313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post

Yes, the bone would have been cleaner. I suspect that metal would tend to tear the paper. You needed to be able to press quite hard on the paper/card but not tear it or leave marks on it.   I suppose that, over time, printers found that the bone was just the right density for doing the job. Again, a bit like using a deer bone on leather. I note that bones for printers and bookbinders are still available on Amazon. 

Ive always though the tiny but smooth fissures and imperfections in the surface of the bone help to polish/smooth as well, certainly on leather though I dont know about paper.

If any one is keen on getting a bone folder and the Amazon ones dont suit for any reason I can get some from our tool suppliers - happy to do so if it would help anyone

Charlie
post #59 of 1313
I bet the FED's go around interrogating overly shiny shell people in hopes they will bust the black market for human bone shell shiners.
post #60 of 1313
Quote:
Originally Posted by VegTan View Post

Yes, very attractive oiled bullhide shoulder.

I guess that's in the eye of the beholder.

In fact "bullhide" or "bullhide shoulder"...AKA "shrunken shoulder"... is a poor cut of leather. And it is seldom, if ever, actually bullhide. It can come from any older bovine animal. [There's nowhere near the number of actual bulls in the domesticated cattle herds being harvested for leather as there are cows. Not enough to meet even the marginal demand of the western boot industry. This is an instance where truth in advertising has triumphed and the term "shrunken shoulder" is now used in preference to the misleading "bullhide".]

It is leather that in better times would not be considered premium under any circumstances. Hides that, in a more knowledgeable era, would simply not have been used for anything but industrial purposes.

When the industry found out that if they subjected the longer fibered, less dense hides to a chemical and mechanical process which "shrinks" and compresses the fiber mat, they could market hitherto worthless hides and, "bullhide" was created. Nevermind the fact that the shrinking is artificial and hence fundamentally temporary and/or unstable.

Or that the "texture" is also artificial and imposed. The raw hides are as smooth as calf or ordinarily marketed cowhide.

And "bullhide" is, by every objective standard, a corrected grain leather.
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