or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › Leather Quality and Properties
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Leather Quality and Properties - Page 12

post #166 of 1279
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Something thatI noticed that I find interesting is that leather seems to have a higher stretching tensile strength than compression tensile strength. If you hold a stick in your hand and bend it it will break where the fibers are stretched. With leather it seems to be the opposite. It has always seemed odd that leather never, or rarely cracks at the welt area where it is stretched over the insole. Leather uppers/lining never seem to break on the inside, but rather in spots where the leather is compressed. Perhaps it is due to it being exposed to more elements, but perhaps something else. I'm curious of how compressing leathers to create density has an effect on strength given this experience I have seen with leather's compression strength.

Closer to the mark there than not.

Generally speaking, a shoe will crack in the creases. The reason for this is that dust accumulates in the crease. Dust is a wild melange of many things but primarily microfines of rock and glass and other hard materials...along with some proportion of harsh chemicals that are not good for leather--salt, acids,etc..

The microfines become an abrasive that constantly tear at the leather fibers by the action of the foot flexing the leather. These particles are made even more destructive by the fact that the creases concentrate them and squeeze them so that they cannot be displaced. More than that, the dust draws conditioning agents and fat liquors out of the leather...and right in those same creases that are so vulnerable to abrasion.

Compression by itself is not necessarily destructive to leather...in fact many components of a shoe depend on it. Moreover, veg tan leathers (such as crusts) actually compress to take a shape far more readily than they stretch to shape. Stretching leather can, take a leather past its "breaking point" even if it's not apparent, but you have to hammer leather pretty hard to damage it (not to say it can't be done). The simple compression that results when leather is flexed is not in that league, IMO.
post #167 of 1279
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Both of these shoes began the same color: Burgundy Antique. Both of them were worn by different people, with different lives and who cared for them differently...

egb11.jpg

Prince Charles' bespoke Lobbs over decades...

Prince_Charless_40-year-old_John_Lobbs_at_Keikari_dot_com3.jpg
shoes-prince-charles-vintage-lobb.jpg
Prince_Charless_40-year-old_John_Lobbs_at_Keikari_dot_com.jpg
Prince+Wales+Visits+St+Pancras+Almshouses+iDIIaQ8ioOAl.jpg

It's important to note that Prince Charles's shoes look like absolute crap. There is the idea of patina, and wearing well-broken-in shoes with character, and then there is wearing shoes that have fallen apart, need to be replaced, and forcing the issue. That's what he's doing. Hobo level. Don't admire it just because a prince is doing it.

I doubt a cobbler would have made any of those crazy repairs for anyone else, but you can't say no to him I guess. To anyone else, they'd say BUY NEW SHOES!

I say this as someone who does appreciate long-lived possessions, and clothing that shows a little age, etc.

Regarding the EGs, my own (single pair) of burgundy antique EGs undergoes that kind of variation through the polishing cycle alone. If I were to use only renovateur for a few "polishes" over a few months, they would lighten to the level of the lighter pair. If I use renovateur + burgundy or mahogany polish a few times, they will look much closer to the darker pair right after the polish. Overall, they have lightened a bit on an "underlying basis," since purchase, and keeping them dark is a matter of continuing to use dark polish. I don't know what that implies about the dye job.
post #168 of 1279
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Closer to the mark there than not.

Generally speaking, a shoe will crack in the creases. The reason for this is that dust accumulates in the crease. Dust is a wild melange of many things but primarily microfines of rock and glass and other hard materials...along with some proportion of harsh chemicals that are not good for leather--salt, acids,etc..

The microfines become an abrasive that constantly tear at the leather fibers by the action of the foot flexing the leather. These particles are made even more destructive by the fact that the creases concentrate them and squeeze them so that they cannot be displaced. More than that, the dust draws conditioning agents and fat liquors out of the leather...and right in those same creases that are so vulnerable to abrasion.

Compression by itself is not necessarily destructive to leather...in fact many components of a shoe depend on it. Moreover, veg tan leathers (such as crusts) actually compress to take a shape far more readily than they stretch to shape. Stretching leather can, take a leather past its "breaking point" even if it's not apparent, but you have to hammer leather pretty hard to damage it (not to say it can't be done). The simple compression that results when leather is flexed is not in that league, IMO.

Why is it that I haven't experienced lining cracking when the salts from my sweaty feet get in there? Again, is it due to dust and such? I was always under the impression that salt is horrible for leather and I have seen examples where this seems to be the case, however I never experienced lining crackage. Is it due to it being veg tanned? Also, fwiw, I put lexol on my linings in the vamp area on the insides every once in a while.
post #169 of 1279
Quote:
Originally Posted by archetypal_yuppie View Post

It's important to note that Prince Charles's shoes look like absolute crap. There is the idea of patina, and wearing well-broken-in shoes with character, and then there is wearing shoes that have fallen apart, need to be replaced, and forcing the issue. That's what he's doing. Hobo level. Don't admire it just because a prince is doing it.

I doubt a cobbler would have made any of those crazy repairs for anyone else, but you can't say no to him I guess. To anyone else, they'd say BUY NEW SHOES!

I say this as someone who does appreciate long-lived possessions, and clothing that shows a little age, etc.

Regarding the EGs, my own (single pair) of burgundy antique EGs undergoes that kind of variation through the polishing cycle alone. If I were to use only renovateur for a few "polishes" over a few months, they would lighten to the level of the lighter pair. If I use renovateur + burgundy or mahogany polish a few times, they will look much closer to the darker pair right after the polish. Overall, they have lightened a bit on an "underlying basis," since purchase, and keeping them dark is a matter of continuing to use dark polish. I don't know what that implies about the dye job.

EG uses crust leathers that are dyed very lightly and achieve the overall coloration through polishes and waxes. I think it is intentional.
post #170 of 1279
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Why is it that I haven't experienced lining cracking when the salts from my sweaty feet get in there? Again, is it due to dust and such? I was always under the impression that salt is horrible for leather and I have seen examples where this seems to be the case, however I never experienced lining crackage. Is it due to it being veg tanned? Also, fwiw, I put lexol on my linings in the vamp area on the insides every once in a while.

I see a lot of cracking in lining...although it's never as bad as on the uppers simply because the dust isn't there. I've said this repeatedly here (and some will probably be bored by the repetition) but in my part of the world much of the dust is ground up (microfines) of volcanic glass from the Mount Mazama eruption 5000 years ago. Yet the dust looks exactly like any other dust. Try to the damage what ground glass will do in a crease.

IMO, the salt itself is not making the leather crack, it's just drying it out. Putting conditioner on the linings counteracts that drying.

Also people perspire at different rates and their perspiration may contain more salt (and other corrosive minerals) than other people's.
post #171 of 1279
Just want to point something out that I find funny: The advertisement for Meermin shoes on this site says, "Handmade Goodyear Shoes". I chuckled.
post #172 of 1279

Given that Prince Charles pays little tax and has a huge income, I agree that it is about time he bought some new shoes. Just because it's old, doesn't mean its good. If that was the case, his mother might have called it a day. 

post #173 of 1279

Come to think of it, Charles could resign, too. 

post #174 of 1279
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post


EG uses crust leathers that are dyed very lightly and achieve the overall coloration through polishes and waxes. I think it is intentional.

 

Intentional IMO.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post

Given that Prince Charles pays little tax and has a huge income, I agree that it is about time he bought some new shoes. Just because it's old, doesn't mean its good. If that was the case, his mother might have called it a day. 

 

If he can fix it...  But the rest of us normal folks might not be so lucky to have Lobb fixing our shoes...

post #175 of 1279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post

Given that Prince Charles pays little tax and has a huge income, I agree that it is about time he bought some new shoes. Just because it's old, doesn't mean its good. If that was the case, his mother might have called it a day. 

He's notorious for his shoes. But just to throw in a little perspective...some people have very tender feet or even a pathology. It my be worth remembering that on a very good shoe such as a Lobbs, the insole develops a "footbed." over time. Such a footbed could make all the difference between comfort and agony. If you got a pair of shoes that have a comfortable footbed...even the prospect of breaking in a new pair might be daunting.

I'm not English (Scot/Irish decent with all that implies). Still and all I'm fond of the Royals. Charles included.
post #176 of 1279
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Prince Charles' bespoke Lobbs over decades...

Prince_Charless_40-year-old_John_Lobbs_at_Keikari_dot_com3.jpg[/img]
Quote:
Originally Posted by archetypal_yuppie View Post

It's important to note that Prince Charles's shoes look like absolute crap.

There is a shoe polishing technique in the army that uses copious amounts of wax and a blow torch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnzVdvbvnMc


I can only presume Charles'shoes have been polished this way and, over the years, have been barbecued.
post #177 of 1279
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post


There is a shoe polishing technique in the army that uses copious amounts of wax and a blow torch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnzVdvbvnMc


I can only presume Charles'shoes have been polished this way and, over the years, have been barbecued.

I was in Taiwan's military police, we didn't go as far as that, though cigarette lighter were definitely involved... I imagine the ceremonial guard probably do something similar as well. Don't think any of my friend in the US military used blow torch either
post #178 of 1279
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

But just to throw in a little perspective...some people have very tender feet or even a pathology. It my be worth remembering that on a very good shoe such as a Lobbs, the insole develops a "footbed." over time. Such a footbed could make all the difference between comfort and agony. If you got a pair of shoes that have a comfortable footbed...even the prospect of breaking in a new pair might be daunting.

Do you suspect that this is the case for him? I don't.
post #179 of 1279
I think he just loves showing off his sprezz for the #menswear blogs.
post #180 of 1279
Quote:
Originally Posted by archetypal_yuppie View Post

Do you suspect that this is the case for him? I don't.

I don't know...I'm not comfortable making those kinds of judgements without more information. & he's never done anything to me.

Just sayin' it's possible .
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Classic Menswear
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › Leather Quality and Properties