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Leather Quality and Properties - Page 86

post #1276 of 1343
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

@DWFII Question, you have said in the past that you generally like to choose hides with a dense grain structure and such. I noticed that some leathers, while not "grainy" have a more pitted surface than other due to hair follicles. Other than aesthetics does this sway your choice? Is there anything inherently worse about this particular hide?
pB,

All other things being equal, I will always choose a leather that has less, or less apparent, "hair cell." I suspect a good part of this is the age of the animal. Calf...esp. young calf...seems to have less hair cell, probably because the hair is finer and "new growth." But I think the tanning has something to do with it, as well. I have noticed that veg tans...again esp. young calf...tend to have less hair cell. One of the nicest leathers I've run across is the St. Crispins's Baby Calf that A.A. Crack markets. it's essentially a pre-dyed veg crust.

I don't know that hair cell by itself is a particular hallmark of poor(er) quality...although, again, I suspect it has some correlation with the age of the animal...but it doesn't present as well as finer leathers and, if nothing else, it's much harder to get a spit shine simply because you have to fill all those hair cells before the bulling begins.
post #1277 of 1343
Thanks for your perspective!
post #1278 of 1343
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Thanks for your perspective!

Yr. Hmb. Svt.
post #1279 of 1343
Good question and good answer gents!
post #1280 of 1343
I am regularly referring to this thread to learn more than I thought I already knew and also to check things I'd forgotten - they say you never stop learning !
post #1281 of 1343

DW -

 

I saw you mention a couple times that you like Bick 4. What's in it? All I can find is that it's supposedly wax, silicone, and animal fat free.

 

Thank you, and thanks for all the info through this thread

 

-Joe

post #1282 of 1343
Quote:
Originally Posted by whipstitch View Post

DW -

I saw you mention a couple times that you like Bick 4. What's in it? All I can find is that it's supposedly wax, silicone, and animal fat free.

Thank you, and thanks for all the info through this thread

-Joe

You've gotten more out of them than I have. I called them direct and asked about ingredients...not a recipe. They wouldn't tell me anything.

I've tried more products than I can remember over the years and while I like some that I don't currently use, my favourite right now is Bick4. Bear in mind that I also use it as a lubricant. But it goes into the leather fast and completely, leaves no greasy residue and won't stain lighter coloured leathers. I guess it just feels right...or at least less problematic...than anything else I've tried. Only long term usage will determine.

--
Edited by DWFII - 10/17/14 at 2:40pm
post #1283 of 1343
Agreed, this thread is definitely among the finest on SF's classic side. More than enough for any regular leather apparel user, and just enough for shoe nerds. My thanks to all who've shared so far.
post #1284 of 1343

Great thread, very informative.

 

Thanks to all.

HonourMark champions the man for his adventures Monday through Friday.
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HonourMark champions the man for his adventures Monday through Friday.
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post #1285 of 1343
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


You've gotten more out of them than I have. I called them direct and asked about ingredients...not a recipe. They wouldn't tell me anything.

I've tried more products than I can remember over the years and while I like some that I don't currently use, my favourite right now is Bick4. Bear in mind that I also use it as a lubricant. But it goes into the leather fast and completely, leaves no greasy residue and won't stain lighter coloured leathers. I guess it just feels right...or at least less problematic...than anything else I've tried. Only long term usage will determine.

--

 

I've seen that Bick4 around but never had a chance to use it.  If it does not have wax, silicone or animal oils link Mink than how does it repels water and stains?  What other ingredient can you use to melt down for leather and have it work like a barrier. 

 

It can not be a natural ingredient right?

What does the Bick4 smell like? 

post #1286 of 1343
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Marcellino View Post

I've seen that Bick4 around but never had a chance to use it.  If it does not have wax, silicone or animal oils link Mink than how does it repels water and stains?  What other ingredient can you use to melt down for leather and have it work like a barrier. 

It can not be a natural ingredient right?
What does the Bick4 smell like? 

Some of your assumptions are a bit off base...

First, I didn't say Bick4 didn't have any of those ingredients in it...I don't know. Bickmore wouldn't tell me....and I am reluctant to speculate.

Second, as a conditioner, I don't know that it needs silicone or wax or even animal or mink oil. In an interview that pB posted, an Industry chemist asserts that most of the "mink oil" used in shoe products is just pig fat. But waxes don't do anything to condition leather and neither does silicone. They may make good water barriers but I, for one, never claimed that Bick4 was anything but a conditioner. And incidentally useful as a lubricant.

That said, I suspect Bick4 has some very slight amount of wax in it as it occasionally leaves a slight dusting of something when applied too heavily.

Third, Jojoba oil (derived from a plant) is a molecular dead ringer for sperm whale oil and GlenKaren products use coconut oil. Both are natural and seem to be good for leather.

As far as I can tell Bick4 has no smell to speak of.

--
Edited by DWFII - 10/18/14 at 12:52pm
post #1287 of 1343

I'm just going off the other post "supposedly wax, silicone, and animal fat free"

 

and my assumption is based on some of their product listings "Repels water and stains"

 

I don't doubt they use some sort of plant oil for conditioning, it would be that or a petroleum product

 

my question posed in the air on SF, really was that if they are not using wax, silicone or real mink, squeezed right from the animal i guess, than what would they be using to repel water on leather?

 

in my experience if the leather does not have some sort of top coat, like acrylic to repel water than not even a wax based conditioner can "Repel" water that good. It is better than nothing, but it is not like a rain coat.

 

ive used coconut, canola and olive oil to condition and works great. I mix it up with some unfiltered wax and real lanolin for a nice paste and works even better to spread and buff.  If i want to darken up my tans I toss in some coco butter and mink oil.  If i want to fill up some scratches ill mix in some Pine Gum Rosin.  That's my recipe. No Secret.  Its all natural you just got to get the percentages and heat right. 

 

 

 

 

post #1288 of 1343
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Marcellino View Post
 

 

and my assumption is based on some of their product listings "Repels water and stains"

 

A lot of products (fats/oils) repel water, and to some extent, stains. that alone is pretty uninformative about the product's contents.

 

btw, some interesting concoctions you got there! I have to try some of those, perhaps I will start with bags/belts first, which will be subject to less flexing/dirt/grime etc before i try them on my footwear


Edited by sleepyinsanfran - 10/18/14 at 3:32pm
post #1289 of 1343
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepyinsanfran View Post

A lot of products (fats/oils) repel water, and to some extent, stains. that alone is pretty uninformative about the product's contents.

That's right. Most oils animal or vegetable have to be emulsified to not be hydrophobic to some extent. Or so I've been told. And fats being even thicker, moreso.

I honestly don't think anyone knows what the ingredients of any of these products are. And I don't believe the advertizing claims in any regard. Bick4 doesn't seem esp. water repellant.
post #1290 of 1343
You really can't go wrong with Lexol, imo. It is synthetic so it doesn't have some of the issues of going rancid like animal and vegetable oils have. It is based on sperm whale oil molecules, which is very similar to jojoba. It is also designed not to migrate, which is key with leather goods such as briefcases and upholstery. Lexol penetrates and stays there and won't come off onto clothing. The issue with just using jojoba is it leaves a residue which attracts dust, dirt, and comes off on clothing and furthermore, oxidizes quickly. A great alternative for a "natural" product is coconut oil, which has incredible oxidative stability and it fully saturated. The issue is, if over applied it feels greasy and can leave a residue so using too much can be an issue.
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