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Leather Quality and Properties - Page 76

post #1126 of 1338
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang66 View Post

Does anyone still make chamois from chamois or are they a rare and exotic beasty?

Chamois leather from chamois seems to have been a rare leather even in 1873.
Quote:
http://chestofbooks.com/reference/American-Cyclopaedia-2/Chamois-Or-Gems-Antilope-Rupicapra-Pallas.html

The American Cyclopædia Vol.2 (1873)

Chamois, Or Gems (Antilope Rupicapra, Pallas)

The skin is dressed into a fine light leather, in use for under garments, and for cleaning plate, glass, and the like; though but a small quantity of what is sold as chamois, or, as it is usually termed, shammy leather, is actually made from the hide of this animal. - Of all sports, the pursuit of the chamois is the most difficult and perilous.

Chamois-Antilope-rupicapra.jpg
Chamois (Antilope rupicapra).

It is also the least profitable, so rare is the beast becoming even in his most difficult and remotest haunts, so small are the chances of success, and so little the value of the game when taken.


I've looked through the webpages below, but no tannery seems to use chamois skins.
Quote:
http://www.leathermag.com/contractors/chamois?d=4294756600

Hafde Plc Tannery, Ethiopia
http://www.hafde.com/
We are the best source in the world for top quality highland hair sheep and bati genuine type goat skins.

Hanlin, UK
https://www.hanlin.co.uk/cms/cms.jsp?menu_id=7460&category=ChamoisLeather
Sheepskin Chamois

Henan Prosper Skins & Leather Enterprise Co Ltd, China
http://www.henanprosper.com/english/Product_Chamois.asp?SortID=73&SortPath=0,3,73,
Genuine chamois leather is a unique and natural product. Quality cod oil tanned chamois leather made from carefully selected sheepskins.

Holbros Ltd, UK

Hutchings & Harding Ltd, UK
http://www.chamois.com/chamois-leather.php
Genuine chamois leather is a unique and natural product. Selected sheepskins are 100% cod oil tanned to give the luxurious, golden, soft finish that can absorb six times its weight of water. Hutchings & Harding chamois has the reputation for quality, still manufactured in the traditional method to ensure high performance and durability.

Ibrahim Leather, Bangladesh

J & T Beaven Ltd, UK
http://www.beaven.com/chamois

Jiaozuo Huifeng Fur & Leather Products Co Ltd, China
http://neipei.en.ec21.com/Chamois_Leather--316754.html
sheepskin

Kent Chamois Co Ltd, UK

MESI SpA Marocchinerie E Scamoscerie Italiane, Italy
http://www.mesi.it/pelli_scamosciate_eng.htm

Nugget International, USA

Pasne Enterprises, India

Riez Company, Japan

Russell Fine Leather, UK
http://www.russels.com/chamoisleathers.shtml

Tannery Ahmed A. Ahahin Sons, Egypt
http://www.tanneryshahin.com/production.html

ATP, Pakistan

Ch Joye & Fils, Belgium
Quote:
http://www.internationalleatherdirectory.com/index.php?action=7&product=CH&Submit3=Go

Tradecom International - Bangladesh

Canada Blue Corp. - Canada

JIAOZUO HUIFENG FUR & LEATHER PRODUCTS Co - China
http://neipei.en.ec21.com/Chamois_Leather--316754.html
sheepskin

Lixian Shuangli Leather Products Co., Lt - China
http://lxslpg.en.china.cn/selling-leads/detail,1065348510,sell-genuine-chamois-leather.html
We specialize in manufacturing high quality chamois leather (made of sheep-skin and goat-skin)

Astoria leathers - India

M.E.S.I. Spa Marocchinerie E Scamoscerie - Italy
http://www.mesi.it/pelli_scamosciate_eng.htm

Josefa Perez Jimeno, SA - Spain

Deri 2000 Chamois Leather and Skiver - Turkey
http://www.deri2000.com/en/chamois.html
Genuine Chamois leather is made from the flesh split of a sheep skin and is tanned using natural marine oils.

Soydan A.S. - Turkey

zimeks chamois leather tannery - Turkey

Holbros Ltd - United Kingdom

Acme Sponge & Chamois Co., Inc. - United States
http://www.acmesponge.com/Chamois.shtml
Only the finest sheepskin are selected for the Tanner's Select product line.

Surak Leather Co. - United States
post #1127 of 1338
Quote:
Originally Posted by VegTan View Post

Chamois leather from chamois seems to have been a rare leather even in 1873.
I've looked through the webpages below, but no tannery seems to use chamois skins.

Cheers, thanks for the effort.
post #1128 of 1338

This looks exactly like the kind of creases I showed on my shoes earlier. I wonder the finishing variations can be as much the cause of these wrinkles (that people often complain about) as leather structure itself.

 

Thanks for posting these detailed shots. I don't have a macro lens but I'll see if I can get a closer picture of my shoes for comparison to your shots of the acrylic finish creases.

post #1129 of 1338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post
 

You crack me up, sometimes, Patrick, but it was a genuine question! I seem to remember reading, somewhere, that chamois can be used to buff shoes. I might, though, be confusing it with  'cotton' chamois. Selvyt cloths are sometimes referred to as 'chamois cloths', I think. What do I know? 

 

The guy at Crockett & Jones uses one in this video: http://vimeo.com/30319198.  I can't say I've ever tried it though. 

post #1130 of 1338

Yes the man in the C&J's video is using Selvyt cloths. I use them all the time and find them excellent for both putting on polish/cream and for buffing the shoes afterwards. 

post #1131 of 1338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post
 

Yes the man in the C&J's video is using Selvyt cloths. I use them all the time and find them excellent for both putting on polish/cream and for buffing the shoes afterwards. 

 

He calls it a chamois leather cloth.  Do they make Selvyt cloths in leather?  If not, then I assume he's using a regular chamois. 

post #1132 of 1338

Selvyt cloths are cotton and they don't do leather ones. I have noticed that some people refer to 'chamois  cloths' to describe smooth cotton ones. The first one that the man in the C&J uses is a Selvyt cotton cloth. You are right, he does refer to his buffing cloth as a 'leather chamois', so we have to assume that it really is leather. As I mentioned, above, A Fine Pair of Shoes sells a large piece of chamois leather for polishing shoes. By way of summary, then: his first cloth is cotton and his second is leather.  

 

I still think he uses a massive amount of cream and wax.

post #1133 of 1338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrybrowne View Post

I have it on the shafts of a pair of St. Crispin's boots and yes, it loses color. What I have does not appear to be crust but might have been finished by St. Crispin's.

I'll post a pic in a minute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrybrowne View Post

Here it is.



Nothing but brushing on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

I think the maker/tanner (is it Horween?) put an antique finish on it after the hatching was embedded to make it stand out. That's whats rubbing off. You're looking at the leather in it's natural state, as who should say.

Slightly late to this party, but thats definitely Horween Russia Grain, I have some samples in the workshop. The finish is notoriously soft - as it arrives from the tannery it pretty much rubs of onto a cloth.

Charlie
post #1134 of 1338
Speaking about hatch grain, i recently received some samples pieces and i had some questions for @DWFII or anyone with knowledge on the subject:

As i observe the sample, it's clearly not finished, but it was not really supple in my opinion. At least in comparison to the hand of my other GGs in crust leather. What kind of leather is used for this stamped hatch grain (corrected) leather, and how does it differ from the crust? I like the look, but i don't want to sacrifice suppleness for aesthetics alone.



I also notices it is quite thick and stiff, and was wondering how much (if any) is skived off before the lasting stage? As that might be part of the stiffness i am feeling.



I guess my last question is, how are such leathers finished? I know you are not a fan of this leathers, but any help is greatly appreciated.
post #1135 of 1338
Quote:
Originally Posted by JubeiSpiegel View Post

Speaking about hatch grain, i recently received some samples pieces and i had some questions for @DWFII or anyone with knowledge on the subject:

As i observe the sample, it's clearly not finished, but it was not really supple in my opinion. At least in comparison to the hand of my other GGs in crust leather. What kind of leather is used for this stamped hatch grain (corrected) leather, and how does it differ from the crust? I like the look, but i don't want to sacrifice suppleness for aesthetics alone.



I also notices it is quite thick and stiff, and was wondering how much (if any) is skived off before the lasting stage? As that might be part of the stiffness i am feeling.



I guess my last question is, how are such leathers finished? I know you are not a fan of this leathers, but any help is greatly appreciated.

Mind sharing the vendor?

Best
post #1136 of 1338
An SFer was kind enough to send me his samples, so no vendor... frown.gif
post #1137 of 1338
Quote:
Originally Posted by JubeiSpiegel View Post

An SFer was kind enough to send me his samples, so no vendor... frown.gif

Damn. It looks like interesting stuff. Was thinking of having a chukka made from it....
post #1138 of 1338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrybrowne View Post

Mind sharing the vendor?

Best

Thats (I assume) Horween Russia Grain. In the UK its available from AA Crack

Charlie
post #1139 of 1338
Leather sourced from AACrack most likely, but the swatch themselves are probably gr G&G.

I have all hatch grain swatches sans navy. Though I have not received my order yet but I have tried on Saint Crispins version and it's definitely supple but sturdy. Not as thin as John Lobb light weight museum calf, which is really flimsy.

It is corrected grain as it's a stamped leather, partially finished but without the top coat. The leather is thick but I am pretty sure they will skive it thinner before making it into shoes, especially when the underside is more hairy than nubuck. The color is not yet finished per se but the final finish will not dramatically alter it's color the way those baby calf crust leather do.

Also it has to be noted that these swatches are leather scraps. Even the pig skin sample I have is stiff in hand. Soak or steam them make them malleable.
post #1140 of 1338
There is currently more than one "hatchgrain" calf leather around.

As far as I know, an Italian tannery produced a leather some 20-odd years ago, which copied the look of the original Metta Catherina hides.

This is presumably the leather used for those vintage shoes made by Ugolino in Florence:

http://centipede.web.fc2.com/ugolini2.html

For those who haven't seen the site yet "centipede" is a veritable treasure trove of vintage shoes (mainly bespoke).

http://centipede.web.fc2.com/

Maybe three years ago, AA Crack (leather merchants in Northampton) bought a certain amount of that leather as dead-stock from a merchant who was unable to sell it and according to Tony Crack: "sold it so well". That is the leather G&G made popular a few years back. As far as I know, it only came in one colour "Sienna" a red-ish light-mid brown.

When the original stock ran out, Crack approached Horween in Chicago to produce for them a version of that particular leather. (That Horween leather maybe an exclusive for Crack, as I haven't seen it listed on Horween's site)

http://www.aacrack.co.uk/catalogue.asp?product_id=18

The Horween differs from the Italian stuff, that it is veg-tanned (with a chrome re-tan) while the Italian stuff was chrome. Horween is also thicker at 1.5 - 1.8 mm (as opposed to 1.3 - 1.5 mm). The Horween dye is also relatively easily removed, which accounts for some of the problems if the manufacturer of the shoes does not re-dye.

Here is another "Russian" leather, produced in Italy mainly for upholstery:
http://www.edelmanleather.com/products/upholstery-leather/russian-antiqued/

Member "shoefan" used that Edelman leather a few years ago for a pair of shoes. Over the toes, where there is the greatest stretch in the leather, the colour became considerably lighter, again, probably necessitating a re-dye job.

It's fair to presume that the leather currently used by G&G, AS etc is the Horween/Crack stuff. Whether the "hatchgrain" used by Bestetti, Saint Crispin and others comes from Horween/Crack or some other source, I wouldn't know. For all I know, there might be other tanneries producing leather which resembles the historical Metta Catharina leather.

I have had two pairs of shoes made from the Crack/Italian hatchgrain, but I only have samples of the Crack/Horween and Edelman stuff.
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