or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › Leather Quality and Properties
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Leather Quality and Properties - Page 75

post #1111 of 1338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang66 View Post

If I read the paper right single fibre diameter of chamois is 0.3 μm or about 1/10 that of the others? Also did they test actual chamois chamois? Chamois and deer aren't the same thing.

In fact, chamois...by any definition...is never deer, much less deer suede. It is always sheep. Even the animal--the chamois is a kind of sheep.

And it is tanned with fish oil IIRC.
post #1112 of 1338
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

In fact, chamois...by any definition...is never deer, much less deer suede. It is always sheep. Even the animal--the chamois is a kind of sheep.

And it is tanned with fish oil IIRC.

Actually it is a goat-antelope, sheep, and goats are also goat-antelopes, i.e all sheep are goat-antelopes, but not all goat-antelopes are sheep, teacha.gif.

I think, the "deer suede" is a translation issue, but I believe leather produced from other goaty type animals is sometimes (improperly) called chamois. I am curious however about what exactly they were testing.

cod oil.
post #1113 of 1338
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang66 View Post

If I read the paper right single fibre diameter of chamois is 0.3 μm or about 1/10 that of the others?

Exactly.

Quote:
Also did they test actual chamois chamois? Chamois and deer aren't the same thing.


The leather used by the experiment is made from deerskin by the following method.
Quote:
the 2nd paragraph of II.1.

soaking→fleshing→aldehyde tannage (or synthetic tannage)→cod oil tannage→boarding→degreasing & washing→drying→splitting→buffing


As for terminology, looks like substitute for Chamois (Rupicapra rupicapra) may vary depending on the country.
Quote:
http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/011392708

Chamois.

Originally used for leather of a characteristic type produced from genuine chamois pelts by oil tannage, now made by the same process but from sheepskin or lambskin splits, or from sheep or lambskin from which the grain has been removed by frizing and tanned by processes involving the oxidation of fish or marine animal oils in the skin, using either solely such oils (full oil chamois) or firstly formaldehyde and then such oils (combination chamois). Chamois also refers to leather made from the skin of the mountain antelope or chamois, but such leather is rare.

France and the United States restrict the term "Chamois," without any qualification, to the fresh split of sheepskin tanned solely with oils. In Germany, the term "Samischleder" is applied to an oil-tanned suede leather made from sheep, lamb, roedeer, red deer, chamois, goat and kidskins, and cattle hide splits. In Italy and Switzerland, this leather is incorrectly termed "selle di ditto" and "Hirchleder," respectively.


BTW, Baker's website has been redesigned.
http://www.jfjbaker.co.uk/
Edited by VegTan - 2/22/14 at 10:36pm
post #1114 of 1338
Quote:
Originally Posted by VegTan View Post

Exactly.
The leather used by the experiment is made from deerskin by the following method.
As for terminology, looks like substitute for Chamois (Rupicapra rupicapra) may vary depending on the country.
BTW, Baker's website has been redesigned.
http://www.jfjbaker.co.uk/

Does anyone still make chamois from chamois or are they a rare and exotic beasty?
post #1115 of 1338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang66 View Post

Actually it is a goat-antelope, sheep, and goats are also goat-antelopes, i.e all sheep are goat-antelopes, but not all goat-antelopes are sheep, teacha.gif.

Yes, you're right. Chamois is not something that, in my experience, is used much in shoemaking. Neither is deer.

In any case, I'll remember that. Thank you.
post #1116 of 1338

Is chamois good for cleaning and buffing shoes?

post #1117 of 1338
Not sure if that was supposed to be a joke, but I loled.
post #1118 of 1338

You crack me up, sometimes, Patrick, but it was a genuine question! I seem to remember reading, somewhere, that chamois can be used to buff shoes. I might, though, be confusing it with  'cotton' chamois. Selvyt cloths are sometimes referred to as 'chamois cloths', I think. What do I know? 


Edited by Munky - 2/23/14 at 10:07am
post #1119 of 1338
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang66 View Post

Actually it is a goat-antelope, sheep, and goats are also goat-antelopes, i.e all sheep are goat-antelopes, but not all goat-antelopes are sheep, teacha.gif.

Yes, you're right. Chamois is not something that, in my experience, is used much in shoemaking. Neither is deer.

In any case, I'll remember that. Thank you.

Have worn Gravati shoes from deerskin. Think they usually have some in their line. Not very durable but so soft!
post #1120 of 1338

I got you here, Patrick!  A Fine Pair of Shoes sells 'High Quality Chamois Leather'  They say," this large piece of Chamois leather is the perfect polishing cloth for creating a high shine finish on your leather shoes". What's more, its made of chamois leather!

 

A drink it is order, I think!

post #1121 of 1338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post

Have worn Gravati shoes from deerskin. Think they usually have some in their line. Not very durable but so soft!

I understand...I've seen shoes and boots made from deer and elk and sheep as well. But deer and elk, esp. don't make very good footwear...like you said "not very durable." And sheep peels.
post #1122 of 1338
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtc2000 View Post

Is acrylic finisher appropriate for fine leather?



A piece of veg tanned horse hide. Acrylic finisher applied on the left. Bare, on the right.

Same piece of leather, rumbled and creased deliberately a few times. See how the "applied" area folds and creases. The area that did not received the acrylic finisher remains smooth. The only logical explanation is that the acrylic finisher acts as a layer of elastomer overcoat.

Unlike wax, the acrylic finisher has a significant effect on the way how leather creases.

post #1123 of 1338
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtc2000 View Post


Based on my observation, the "elusive" finish is nothing more than a heavy layer of acrylic finisher.

A coat of acrylic finisher was applied to the de-glazed Cordovan boot locally.
I was able to simulate the original factory finish fairly well. Now, it has the original "wet" feel.


post #1124 of 1338
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtc2000 View Post

Same piece of leather, rumbled and creased deliberately a few times. See how the "applied" area folds and creases. The area that did not received the acrylic finisher remains smooth. The only logical explanation is that the acrylic finisher acts as a layer of elastomer overcoat.

Unlike wax, the acrylic finisher has a significant effect on the way how leather creases.


No question that the acrylic wax is a thicker, more cohesive coating than a natural wax would be. Spit shine the joint area of a shoe and then walk it...even for only a few minutes. I think you will be surprised at the results.

Then too, there are a number of different formulations of acrylic waxes. Some can be applied directly, some require "conditioners" of various strengths to prepare the surface. Some, as I suggested, are high shine, some are satin. Some are more flexible than others. some are even forumlated for shoes...where flexing is expected...and some are formulated for other kinds of leather goods. Or even floors.

Part of what you're seeing there is the effects of light reflecting off the acrylic. The leather is still creased in the unfinished area. It's just not as noticeable.

Keep in mind that many if not most leathers (shell is an exception...usually) that are very shiny have an acrylic finish on them. That's the way they come from the currier and that's the way they are marketed. But you don't necessarily see the effect you've photographed here on those leathers.

--
Edited by DWFII - 2/23/14 at 2:43pm
post #1125 of 1338
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


Part of what you're seeing there is the effects of light reflecting off the acrylic. The leather is still creased in the unfinished area. It's just not as noticeable.

--

I can't dispute the fact that there are various different acrylic finishers.

What I have here are significant folds on the treated leather surface. Much more so than the untreated area.
The treated area has a distinct roughness to the touch. It is not light playing the trick.

Extreme closeups Acrylic finisher treated area on the left. Untreated surface on the right.




Well, I guess that's one way to create distress leather finish.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Classic Menswear
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › Leather Quality and Properties