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The German language - Page 5

post #61 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by globetrotter View Post
german is a hell of alot less useful than it was 20 years ago - now, most of central europe doesn't speak any german. speaking german well is very difficult, speaking it poorly is pretty easy.

+1 on both counts.

I speak German decently, once spoke it quite well but I'm fairly out of practice now. Even when I did consulting in Germany, business was conducted 75-80% auf Englisch.

"Austrian German" is a pretty nebulous concept. Wienerisch is far different from what one hears in Graz or Salzburg. At its height, its English equivalent would be southern English as spoken by someone like President Carter or Andrew Young; at its worst, it sounds like the English equivalent of stupid redneck.
post #62 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkzzzz View Post
What do you mean by Finland being not too far? From whom? Japan? It's quite far from Japan about 1/5 of the earth far.
It's a small world.... after all... JLibourel: for whatever reason, what I said is still true, that Koreans can go to Japan and be fluent pretty quickly (less than a year). I found that interesting when I heard it, but it makes sense.
post #63 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiecollector View Post
Japanese and Korean share similar grammar and both are derived from Chinese words. They also share some of the same words. A Korean can go to Japan and become fluent pretty quickly, and vice versa. NR would be a better judge of this but this is what I have heard from Koreans and I associate with many.

My Korean friends all speak Japanese better after a few years than I do after twenty, so yes, the grammar is very close. The rhythms and cadences are as well. When I hear Korean spoken, my brain always tries to process it as Japanese even though I can't understand a word. It's similar to what people have said about Portuguese and Russian.

It's not really accurate to say that either language was derived from Chinese. Rather, they took the Chinese writing system and adapted it to their own languages. I can't speak for Korean, but in the case of Japanese, adoption of the Chinese characters enriched the language a great deal, as new vocabulary and concepts were added to an existing native language that lacked a writing system. Perhaps in that sense, a significant portion of the language was derived from Chinese. However, by the same token, Japanese is now appropriating an increasing number of words from English, but you could hardly say it is derived from English.

The meanings and combinations of Chinese characters used in Japanese are quite different from the meanings and combinations used in Chinese, and the pronunciations of the two languages don't resemble one another in the least. So, the extent of any similarity are shared elements in the writing system.
post #64 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkzzzz View Post
You mean Mongolians. All those famous Chinese dynasties are really Mongols as they extensively colonized and fucked China for many centuries.


"That is pretty nuts but Finland isn't too far away though. Not sure about Japanese but Korean is just Chinese words with Mongolian grammar. "

I would disagree regarding Mongolian grammar. To the best of my knowledge Mongols were illiterate and had no grammar nor writing.
What do you mean by Finland being not too far? From whom? Japan? It's quite far from Japan about 1/5 of the earth far.
That is not true. Only the Yüan Dynasty was Mongol; and the Qing Dynasty was Manchu.

However, by the end of the Qing Dynasty they were as Chinese as any other dynasty.
post #65 of 106
Subvert the Qing! Restore the Ming!
post #66 of 106
Where are you planning on going with this new found training? If you never plan on living in Eastern Europe, German would be functionally useless.

I'd say go with Spanish, then French, then Portuguese. Portuguese, at least Brazilian Portuguese, is essentially a merging of the French and Spanish languages, and should require relatively little learning once you have the first 2 down.
post #67 of 106
Some of what has been said about oriental languages similar to finnish is maybe because, even if it is not completely demonstrated, finns are as hungarians descendents from the Huns tribes that came from mongolia or maybe some place more east...

The scientist base this on the similitudes between Finnish and Hungarian, the only two similar languages of this kind in Europe, it is not Germanic, nor Slavic nor Latin... it is something else... not Indo-European
post #68 of 106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiecollector View Post

Personally, I have always thought Gaelic would be super cool to learn and have always wanted to learn Welsh Gaelic ever since I heard my grandma's friends speaking it.

Welsh is a fascinating language, but it's not Gaelic. Goidelic languages are of three varieties: Irish, Scottish, and Manx. There's also a Canadian dialect that's used in Nova Scotia, but I can't say I know what it sounds like.

Manx is frighteningly different from Scottish & Irish Gaelic. I can understand some written Scottish because it is very similar to Irish...but when it comes to Manx, I can't make out a single freakin' word.
post #69 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Connemara View Post
Welsh is a fascinating language, but it's not Gaelic. Goidelic languages are of three varieties: Irish, Scottish, and Manx. There's also a Canadian dialect that's used in Nova Scotia, but I can't say I know what it sounds like.

Manx is frighteningly different from Scottish & Irish Gaelic. I can understand some written Scottish because it is very similar to Irish...but when it comes to Manx, I can't make out a single freakin' word.

You can hear Canadian Gaelic on Ashley MacIssac's okay song "Sleepy Maggie".

Dublin is "Balley Aah Cleeah" in Manx - hilarious. Write what you hear, Manx! I can pick out bits and pieces of it because it looks like an Irish speaker handed an illiterate a pen and told them to transcribe. "Ruggit" = "Rugadh", "Ta shiu" ~ "Ta sé", etc.
post #70 of 106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanchai View Post
You can hear Canadian Gaelic on Ashley MacIssac's okay song "Sleepy Maggie".

Dublin is "Balley Aah Cleeah" in Manx - hilarious.
Write what you hear, Manx! I can pick out bits and pieces of it because it looks like an Irish speaker handed an illiterate a pen and told them to transcribe. "Ruggit" = "Rugadh", "Ta shiu" ~ "Ta sé", etc.



That is too fucking funny.
post #71 of 106
Any similarity between Finnish and Japanese is coincidental. The languages are not related in any way.
post #72 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by WN2 View Post
Any similarity between Finnish and Japanese is coincidental. The languages are not related in any way.

Depends on who you ask. Uralic-Altaic theorists would probably argue that with you.
post #73 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanchai View Post
Depends on who you ask. Uralic-Altaic theorists would probably argue that with you.

I have read that Korean may indeed have very distant Ural-Altaic affinities--and I think the Finno-Ugric language groups are only distantly related to the main Altaic languages, but I could be wrong about this--but I have never heard this posited for Japanese!
post #74 of 106
German is supposed to be a very difficult language to insinuate in.
post #75 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLibourel View Post
I have read that Korean may indeed have very distant Ural-Altaic affinities--and I think the Finno-Ugric language groups are only distantly related to the main Altaic languages, but I could be wrong about this--but I have never heard this posited for Japanese!

I heard it this week from a professor who has a PhD in Uralic-Altaic Linguistics, but he doesn't seem to believe it. I don't know how much stock I put in linguistics anyway.
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