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Condo purchases/homeownership/etc

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
Anyone here in residential real estate want to give me free advice that isn't tinged with "yeah I'll tell you all about everything, but buy my clients apartment"?

I'm looking to buy a condo in chicago's gold coast for under 250k. I've found a couple of great candidates and I've also created a model to give me an idea of my cashflows, particularly as juxtaposed to the rent payments I'd possibly be making. This is for one of them. All numbers are in 1000's.





I've done a reasonable amount of research but there's still some questions:

1.) Are property taxes completely tax-deductable? How is this figured on your taxes? Do I just subtract say, 3k from my tax bill of say 20k?

2.) How is life as a landlord? In several of my models I assume that I live in the place for 2 years and then rent it out at the current market rate (bad assumption, but keeps thing conservative)...

3.) Would you ever put an offer for a basement unit? It's not completely underground, but there are only 3 windows and they are about 1x2 feet each. The rest of the apartment and the location are awesome. They say it's all about location, right?

4.) Is it appropriate to low-ball as a first offer? If their asking price is 218k (basement unit) and it's been on the market for 1 year, and been reduced from 240k, would it be at all appropriate to bid 185k?

5.) What types of things should I look out for when putting in a bid? I'm a first time buyer.

6.) For the mortgage, I need to get a note from my employer saying that I'm working and making XXXX dollars. Anyone know what that's called? Checked google couldn't find anything.


These are more or less the questions I still have after searching google, btw.

Anyway, any help would be massively appreciated, as I'm looking to put an offer on some of these places in the coming week.

Thanks,

David.
post #2 of 25
Amazing thoroughness, but why buy now? It comes down to a simple question... at what rate does the housing market value have to increase to beat the investment potential of your downpayment? ... and do you believe the housing market can continue to rise at that rate? If you were planning to stay in one place for more than 10 or 15 years then go for it but if you're looking to sell and move, those expenses will likely nix any profit the dwindling housing market has left. Why not stay liquid when you can get similar or better returns without the hassle of having to sell a property when no one is buying?
post #3 of 25
Thread Starter 
It's a good point that I considered - but assuming that I put my downpayment at a relatively riskless rate of about 5% for 3 years, I'd end up with $11,618...chump change. Even assuming my discount rate of 9%, I'd have 13,000 at the end of 3 years. Also, owning a place gives you plenty of opportunity for investment (invest in the property), as well as tax benefits (this is one of my questions - how do I quantify my tax benefits). In the calculations I assumed a 4k buying cost and 10k selling cost. My model ends in 3 years, true, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I will sell in 3 years. If I can find a tenent to service the remaining mortgage, I'd certainly keep the place as a rental property (hence my question about being a landlord). In the end, I haven't decided yet whether I want to own a place or not, but I think the answers to the my questions might help me figure that out. Also, as it stands now, the NPV of renting is (34,590) whereas to buy the apartment is (25,200), assuming that I put in no improvements and need to fix nothing (or get slapped with special assessments).
post #4 of 25
Of course, every situation is different and it may be beneficial to buy in your case if the numbers prove that out. However, what if the market doesn't just stop going up, but actually goes down? What if we get another crash repeat of 1981? Not the same causations but the same result is certainly possible. For many homeowners who purchased in 1980 at the peak, it has taken over 20 years for their investment to come back to "even." Nevermind the vast lot that simply left the keys on the table and walked away from their mortgages. Look at the war, the political climate, and the state of the world -- not just spreadsheet numbers. In the next 10 years what is the likelihood that some sort of major financial disaster could happen somewhere in the world that will eventually affect us? Fairly high? Or not so probable? That is what you're banking on. Is it worth risking an already overvalued housing market to tie up all of your downpayment and future earnings into an asset that you may not be able to sell in the future and may be worth significantly less than what you paid? http://www.thehousingbubbleblog.com (not a wacko, simply a collection of the news from major sources)
post #5 of 25
...and it may not take any sort of financial, political, or natural disaster to break the housing market. The Fed is doing a fine job of it without any help. If you're looking at your purchase as an investment, you have to look far back into the historical trends to have an idea of what is possible. It is a flat out lie that real estate always goes up and that it is always a good time to buy.
post #6 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHoff View Post
Look at the war, the political climate, and the state of the world -- not just spreadsheet numbers. In the next 10 years what is the likelihood that some sort of major financial disaster could happen somewhere in the world that will eventually affect us? Fairly high? Or not so probable? That is what you're banking on. Is it worth risking an already overvalued housing market to tie up all of your downpayment and future earnings into an asset that you may not be able to sell in the future and may be worth significantly less than what you paid?
When I read stories about people being struck and killed by frozen effluent released from passing airliners I should stay indoors? Or rather than risk a macbre death on the highway refrain from driving?

I am obviously not familiar with local market conditions around the country, but I'm fairly confident the blanket statement "already overvalued housing market" is no longer accurate. There certainly is a risk in the future, but a great deal of correction has taken place in the last twelve months.
post #7 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota rube View Post
When I read stories about people being struck and killed by frozen effluent released from passing airliners I should stay indoors? Or rather than risk a macbre death on the highway refrain from driving? I am obviously not familiar with local market conditions around the country, but I'm fairly confident the blanket statement "already overvalued housing market" is no longer accurate. There certainly is a risk in the future, but a great deal of correction has taken place in the last twelve months.
I'm sure there are pockets of affordability showing up now but the point isn't to stop investing your money, it is to invest it wisely. Why put your available cash into something with a value that is currently dropping and is costly, difficult and time consuming to sell? It isn't like other investments where it is fairly easy to get out at any price point no matter how much you've lost or current downward market direction. And if someone told me "every 20 or 30 years, hundreds of thousands of people will look up into the sky hoping to catch free money but will instead be struck dead by frozen effluent" well yea, I'd probably stay indoors for a while. See that big jet flying overhead? It is the overpriced and falling housing market and it has a special delivery for people who buy near the peak.
post #8 of 25
Thread Starter 
I understand your position - real estate prices haven't fallen as quickly as they ought to considering that residential housing has slowed so much. But I think that housing in large cities pretty much remains fairly constant if not grows. As one of the fastest growing large cities in the country, Chicago seems like a fairly good investment. Also, as long there's nothing catalysmic (atomic bomb, etc) I'm pretty confident that it won't be a huge money losing endeavour. Also, renting for the next 3 years at 1,100$/month would be just like throwing money away. So, I think investment wise it's not too risky, and then as for the down payment, the 10 grand won't exactly be missed too much...right now it's just sitting earning a paltry 5%.
post #9 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHoff View Post
And if someone told me "every 20 or 30 years, hundreds of thousands of people will look up into the sky hoping to catch free money but will instead be struck dead by frozen effluent" well yea, I'd probably stay indoors for a while. See that big jet flying overhead? It is the overpriced and falling housing market and it has a special delivery for people who buy near the peak.

Likely story, coming from a man who lives in "wearing puppies."

post #10 of 25
My $.02:

1. Property taxes are fully tax-deductible. You add them to your itemized deductions (which include, among other things, mortgage interest and state taxes). Roughly speaking, you multiply your property taxes by your marginal tax rate to calculate how much you will reduce your tax burden.

2. Being a landlord is a 24/7 job. I am not a landlord, but my aunt and uncle are. They had to leave my cousin's wedding reception early because one of their tenants locked themselves out of their apartment.

3. I wouldn't buy a basement unit or a first-floor unit with bars on the windows. I'm sure there are plenty of people who feel the same. The location on the Gold Coast may overcome that shortcoming to an extent.

4. Be careful with lowball offers. You don't want to insult the seller to such an extent that he doesn't take you seriously.

5. A good buyer's agent will help.

6. You should receive a payroll document from your employer with each pay period.

Are you getting an interest-only ARM? I would proceed very cautiously with that instrument.
post #11 of 25
Thread Starter 
Ambulence chaser, thanks a ton for your input - that was really helpful. I've amended my model to include both the property taxes and the associated tax benefit from the tax (I said my marginal tax rate was 35%, a reasonable assumption for a 55k income). I'm tending farther and farther away from the basement unit. The assessments and taxes are really cheap and while the current asking price is almost 25k greater than the high rise that I'm looking at, the monthly cashflow is actually less. The agent told me that there "was some room for movement in the price", which makes me think that I could get a 'bargain basement' price on this hehe pun intended. But it's a basement unit for godsakes!
post #12 of 25
Thread Starter 
Oh and I was thinking of a 30 year fixed, I assumed 6.4% because while I have perfect credit I don't have a very long credit history. Oh and as for the payroll document, I haven't yet started work so would it still be possible to get some documentation from my soon to be work? How would I go about getting said document from my work? Would a copy of my contract work? D.
post #13 of 25
1 BR or studio condos are bad investments. They're often "temporary" housing and are always on the market. If one of your neighbors is desperate and accepts a lowball offer on a similar unit, that drags down the price you can expect when you sell.

Housing market has at least 2-3 years before it hits bottom, there are still a lot of interest only mortgages that haven't expired yet.

I doubt you can rent a unit for anything close to the mortgage payment + association fees.

Keep renting and don't buy anything until you're built up $50-100K in savings, then buy something you can comfortably live in for 15-20 years.

Real estate is mostly a scam.
post #14 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_atlanta View Post
1 BR or studio condos are bad investments. They're often "temporary" housing and are always on the market. If one of your neighbors is desperate and accepts a lowball offer on a similar unit, that drags down the price you can expect when you sell.

Housing market has at least 2-3 years before it hits bottom, there are still a lot of interest only mortgages that haven't expired yet.

I doubt you can rent a unit for anything close to the mortgage payment + association fees.

Keep renting and don't buy anything until you're built up $50-100K in savings, then buy something you can comfortably live in for 15-20 years.

Real estate is mostly a scam.

^^^^ quoted for the truth ^^^^ +1
post #15 of 25
Thread Starter 
How is that true? If one of your neighbors sells for lower, it shouldn't necessarly affect the price of your condo because pretty much everything is fluid in the market - meaning they might get slightly below market, but if the people wanting to buy your place are very interested, they'll pay at market or above. I know a couple buildings where someone sold for 185 another sold for 230 - but there was a difference of floor, quality, etc. Basically if someone sells for less, it just means that they have a worse apartment than what you have...there's very little comparables in the condo market such that a 20k difference can't be accounted for. Your prediction for the housing market is pretty negative. Most people who have those interest only loans have already defaulted (heard about all the subprimes going bankrupt? Yeah that was everyone falling out). You don't have to wait for a mortgage expiration to declare bankrupcy. With my predictions it would be pretty hard to fully fund the mortgage payment + fees, but since I'm planning on staying in chicago for a couple years, and with my bonsus & other payments coming in over that time, I'll be able to pay down the mortgage and rent at or at least around the payment. Nonetheless, if I move back to the west coast in 4-5 years, I'll probably sell the apartment anyway. I simply can't buy something that I want to stay in for the next 15 years because I'm 21 and will definitely move out of chicago before I'm 36, so help me god But thanks for your input.
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