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Dining/side chairs - Page 5

post #61 of 110
I'm not talking about Caterpillar. I'm talking about small private companies. Like, say, even mine.
post #62 of 110
D., unless I'm reading you wrong, there is a mix-up.

Gome's Trattoria chairs are the ones in wood, with translucent plastic pieces. No, those don't need to be custom-ordered. Like I said, I suspect they are taking so long because Magis isn't just going to make four chairs all a sudden, for one order. They are probably going to wait until the next run, which could take a long time due to production cycles. I don't think anyone is under the illusion that such a chair is difficult to manufacture or takes much time in actual production.

The chair I'm talking about, my lounge chair from Cappellini, is custom-ordered. There are literally thousands of different hides and fabrics to pick from. Even if all are ready-to-go, the chair still needs to be made, and who knows how far back I am in the line. If they have a huge hundred-chair order for an office building, they are probably going to prioritize that, aren't they? Anyway, you and Skinny clearly know more about production than I do (an understatement), but for what it's worth, the chair is built on a molded plywood structure. The leather is adhered onto some foam layer put on top of it.

I have no doubt the margins are enormous. But in certain cases, you are not just paying for a particular living designer's work (such as the case with either Gome's chair or my lounge chair), you could also be paying for the provenance of manufacture (Knoll, Herman Miller, etc.). Maybe the latter shouldn't matter, but the truth is, bargain-seekers are driven to the non-licensed manufacturers, so there is usually a quality difference.
post #63 of 110
There is no mixup.

Obviously on Gome's chairs, yes, they are going to wait until the next run, which is going to be a long time due to production cycles. I am not disputing any of that. But what I am telling you that 8-12 week production cycles are pretty crazy long for many industries, particularly competitive ones. Obviously, this industry is not particularly competitive.

On configured or customized products I do understand that there can be lead times if there are truly 1000s of different fabrics (are there really 1000s?) and that could present some lead time difficulties but even then I am here to tell you that competitive companies in competitive industries have figured out how to make this work.

Even noncompetitive companies usually have it better figured out than 8-12 weeks for standard or configured items.

Anyways, I'm sort of a manufacturing geek and Lean/Toyota production system nerd, so it's uber-galling to me that on very high manufacturing margin products like these, where there's no really good reason things should take so long (trust me they can afford to carry some inventory, or better yet, apply some TPS action to their line and maybe carry less inventory and improve lead times and reduce costs) people are so willing to make excuses for shit-poor customer service.

Of course, I do understand that employment law, tax policy, and other economic conditions change the picture a little bit in Europe. Some factories really don't care if business grows (we have a manufacturing partner in Germany that feels just this way, and will tell you so to your face). So there's a double whammy.

Maybe I should go into the modern furniture business.
post #64 of 110
You are obviously right that the industry is not that competitive. Unfortunately, since we are paying as much for design as for the material product, it is hard to escape that reality.
post #65 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas View Post

There is no mixup.

Obviously on Gome's chairs, yes, they are going to wait until the next run, which is going to be a long time due to production cycles. I am not disputing any of that. But what I am telling you that 8-12 week production cycles are pretty crazy long for many industries, particularly competitive ones. Obviously, this industry is not particularly competitive.

On configured or customized products I do understand that there can be lead times if there are truly 1000s of different fabrics (are there really 1000s?) and that could present some lead time difficulties but even then I am here to tell you that competitive companies in competitive industries have figured out how to make this work.

Even noncompetitive companies usually have it better figured out than 8-12 weeks for standard or configured items.

Anyways, I'm sort of a manufacturing geek and Lean/Toyota production system nerd, so it's uber-galling to me that on very high manufacturing margin products like these, where there's no really good reason things should take so long (trust me they can afford to carry some inventory, or better yet, apply some TPS action to their line and maybe carry less inventory and improve lead times and reduce costs) people are so willing to make excuses for shit-poor customer service.

Of course, I do understand that employment law, tax policy, and other economic conditions change the picture a little bit in Europe. Some factories really don't care if business grows (we have a manufacturing partner in Germany that feels just this way, and will tell you so to your face). So there's a double whammy.

Maybe I should go into the modern furniture business.

You know that no good can come from TPS reports.
post #66 of 110
One of my clients offer some metal pieces in any ral color you want and their chairs are offered in any kvadrat color and a rang of leathers, so there's literally thousands of combos.
post #67 of 110
That is true for the Cappellini Lotus. You can pick any Poltrona Frau leather, virtually any Kvadrat fabric, and more. The chair can have five or six different finishes and two arm configurations.
post #68 of 110
The number of combinations is immaterial from a manufacturing standpoint. Only the number and variation of inputs is important. Walk into Baskin-Robbins - between 36 flavors of ice cream, available to combo in any arrangement of two or three scoops, waffle cone or sugar cone or chocolate dipped cone or cup, any combination of sprinkles and toppings, there are thousands of discrete combinations. But to support them all only takes one ice cream shop with a couple of tubs of inventory.
post #69 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas View Post

The number of combinations is immaterial from a manufacturing standpoint. Only the number and variation of inputs is important. Walk into Baskin-Robbins - between 36 flavors of ice cream, available to combo in any arrangement of two or three scoops, waffle cone or sugar cone or chocolate dipped cone or cup, any combination of sprinkles and toppings, there are thousands of discrete combinations. But to support them all only takes one ice cream shop with a couple of tubs of inventory.

It was from a warehouse stand point, you can't have 6 all pink chairs lounging round the warehouse, because it's an option and hope someone will order them.
post #70 of 110
Not that competitive and most are fine with waiting. If I were ordering for a large project the last thing I would want is the furniture, since it would wind up in storage during the length of the project.
post #71 of 110

I like the look of Cherners for dining...usually I'd shy away from an iconic piece, but I don't know why I like the cherners so much.

 

Does anyone have them and used them for a few years. I suspect the neck of the chair would eventually develop fine cracks as the years go by but wouldnt know for sure.

 

post #72 of 110
They are surprisingly sturdy. Comfortable for an hour or so. I feel no reason to shy away from icons if you are using them well. So many of them have been slightly modified over the years to improve them in both comfort and quality that I see no reason to avoid. Some are still horribly uncomfortable.

My favorite dining chairs are moller 57's, they're formal enough where they do not look out of place with traditional silver table settings, and yet incredibly comfortable for a long sit.
Edited by SkinnyGoomba - 6/22/13 at 3:12pm
post #73 of 110
Douglas brings the manufacturing knowledge. This is like one of those threaks where people tell me about how healthcare works and my input gets ignored and discounted.
post #74 of 110
I'm not discounting Douglas' exp, I respect it. However, posting a resume' does not exclude my experience from being relevant.

I certainly agree that persistence often overrides the more informed on the board here.
Edited by SkinnyGoomba - 6/22/13 at 9:40pm
post #75 of 110

I appreciate the recommendations and information goomba, very helpful.

 

The Moller's are nice and much more sedate; however, they go for about 1100-1400 new...That's just silly, there is no reason for that chair to come anywhere near that price. Plus, they don't have the best back support. I have custom builders who can make me similar styled chairs for cheaper. Vintage would be a good bet for mollers I imagine.

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