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Hong Kong Tailor- Empire Int'l Tailors- Help with the fit of my suit - Page 4

post #46 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by robetrw006 View Post

suggestions on this suit in regards to ways that make it fit my body type better

It fits your body type just fine. What you want is a suit that will in no way flatter your body type.
post #47 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by robetrw006 View Post


You mention I haven't learned anything, but I don't see anything on your list that I haven't already mentioned except for the idea that you don't always get what you pay for, which is something that goes against what others in this thread have suggested, just like much of the other suggestions. Some say take it in, others say relax it. Its hard to learn when everyone seems to have a different opinion.

My foremost goal here was to get suggestions on this suit in regards to ways that make it look better/fit my body type better, not a future suit. When the time comes for another suit I will certainly do a lot more reading and possibly consult this forum again, despite the polarized suggestions.

If you really fear I will show up again at a later date with my "colorful annotations" asking why my new tailored suit doesn't make me look 80 pounds lighter, you need to pay more attention to what I write and re-read my previous comments.

I have mentioned multiple times that I am a complete newbie at bespoke suits. All I came here for was advice on attempting to salvage a suit and instead I get chastised from you because I didn't "learn" things that are quite obvious such as 1) another tailor might not solve all my problems and 2) you don't always get what you pay for(which I agree with, but believe is usually untrue, at least in matters outside of tailoring).

OP - chill out, I wasn't chastising you. I appreciate you are a newbie to bespoke suits and I was just trying to manage your expectations of what the process can achieve. You have mentioned in a few posts "I should have gone to Simpson Sin" and "next time i'll just go to Simpson Sin", which is why I was trying to illustrate simply going to Simpson Sin won't automatically produce markedly better results (in fact, it most likely won't).

WIth regards to the "you get what you pay for" issue - I agree that is true in life and also with respect to bespoke tailoring (as a very general rule the more expensive tailors in HK will produce better results, but there are always exceptions). That said, even good tailors can mess up sometimes or simply have a different style to the one you were envisioning. Not sure why that concept is difficult to grasp or why you weren't able to decipher that from my post. Let me give you an analogy - you could have an amazing, world renownded hairdresser, but they could still give someone a haircut they hate, right?

Finally, with regards to people disagreeing - yes, this is a discussion forum, that's what happens on discussion forums. You are naive if you are expecting people to agree on everything.
post #48 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dib View Post


1) Not sure why that concept is difficult to grasp or why you weren't able to decipher that from my post.

2) Finally, with regards to people disagreeing - yes, this is a discussion forum, that's what happens on discussion forums. You are naive if you are expecting people to agree on everything.

 

 

1) Not difficult to grasp. Hard to decipher because there is no clear point and frankly, I don't believe this is a topic that requires windy answers that require deciphering.

 

2) No, I never expected everyone to agree, I just expected people to have enough knowledge to understand what I'm aiming for. I especially expect people to stop saying "you can't get the suit you want with your body type" after I've repeatedly said I understand that no suit, no matter the price, will trim off 80 pounds.

 

Naive? Cut the childish name-calling/belittlement, will you?

post #49 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by robetrw006 View Post

I especially expect people to stop saying "you can't get the suit you want with your body type" after I've repeatedly said I understand that no suit, no matter the price, will trim off 80 pounds.

And yet, you continue to belabor the point that you want the shape of suits on much thinner men.
post #50 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by robetrw006 View Post


1) Not difficult to grasp. Hard to decipher because there is no clear point and frankly, I don't believe this is a topic that requires windy answers that require deciphering.

2) No, I never expected everyone to agree, I just expected people to have enough knowledge to understand what I'm aiming for. I especially expect people to stop saying "you can't get the suit you want with your body type" after I've repeatedly said I understand that no suit, no matter the price, will trim off 80 pounds.

Naive? Cut the childish name-calling/belittlement, will you?

1) No clear point?? My point, or at least the point in contention (and which I think most people other than you probably understood pretty readily) was that going to budget HK tailors will generally produce bad results, but be careful because even expensive tailors can not meet your expectations if you don't know what you are doing when commissioning a suit.

If you couldn't understand that from my earlier post, and found a post with 3 or 4 paragraphs windy, then I now understand why you are having such difficulties in processing and understanding the other advice being given to you on this thread.

2) People do understand what you are aiming for - their answers may not be the answers you want, and they may not all be in agreement with one another, but that doesn't mean they haven't understood what you are after.

3) You think being called "naive" is childish? Seriously? You need to get a slightly thicker skin. Believe it or not, my intention was to actually try and help you - I, like others, gave you pointers on what I thought was wrong with the suit and when you made references to trying other tailors in the future I tried to give you advice which I thought would help you avoid getting burned in the future. That said, you are clearly unable to make use of any information being given to you unless it is all 100% consistent and spoon fed to you in bite size pieces so I think i'll leave it there - no point in trying to discuss this any further with you.
post #51 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by robetrw006 View Post

 

 

1) Not difficult to grasp. Hard to decipher because there is no clear point and frankly, I don't believe this is a topic that requires windy answers that require deciphering.

 

2) No, I never expected everyone to agree, I just expected people to have enough knowledge to understand what I'm aiming for. I especially expect people to stop saying "you can't get the suit you want with your body type" after I've repeatedly said I understand that no suit, no matter the price, will trim off 80 pounds.

 

Naive? Cut the childish name-calling/belittlement, will you?

Here are my 2 cents (and some repetition of what others have said):

 

1. As I said before, don't try any more shaping or waist suppression in the jacket as it will lead to other problems. You body type won't support it.

2. Get the pants fixed as it will make the whole look much better than its component parts.

 

My recommendation is that for your next suit you try a reasonably upscale RTW or, possibly, MTM brand that has a variety of patterns (BB being a good example). Work on matching one of the more generic patterns (used in RTW and MTM) to your body type. I suspect your tailor tried to give you an approximation of a currently "fashionable" suit (at least that is what the overly short jacket says to me) without a good starting point for what you (and your body type) look good in. What would have helped is if he had a completed and reasonably well fitting off the rack, or MTM suit, to act as a reference. For example, my best fully custom tailored suit has much in common with a BB MTM suit I wore to my initial measuring. The tailor looked at what was good and bad on the MTM garment (fit wise) and was able to make a lot of early calls on what needed to be done on my initial pattern. By the time basted stage fitting came around, he only needed to focus on tweaks to complete the pattern.

 

I know that people expect tailors to be designers, but that isn't how it works in my experience. Custom tailoring work best when you have already figured out what styles and themes work for you and they can focus on simply crafting the best fitting example of that style. Last but not least, my first bespoke suit was a mess for exactly the reasons I just outlined and, like you, I felt the tailor had "let me down" (and, in my case, taken an eye-watering amount of money). It wasn't until some time later that I began to understand what had actually happened. That very same tailor, a few years later, created the suit that I consider my best.

post #52 of 69
Summary for your current suit:

1. If you insist on waist suppression then leave the suit jacket the way it is.
2. Try and get them to lengthen the jacket if possible.
3. Try and get them to fix the pants, looks like it isn't cut to sit on your natural waist line
4. Wear your suit and be happy with it. It isn't a disaster!

Future suits:

1. You have more than enough info to get something better in the future.
post #53 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dib View Post


1) No clear point?? My point, or at least the point in contention (and which I think most people other than you probably understood pretty readily) was that going to budget HK tailors will generally produce bad results, but be careful because even expensive tailors can not meet your expectations if you don't know what you are doing when commissioning a suit.

If you couldn't understand that from my earlier post, and found a post with 3 or 4 paragraphs windy, then I now understand why you are having such difficulties in processing and understanding the other advice being given to you on this thread.

2) People do understand what you are aiming for - their answers may not be the answers you want, and they may not all be in agreement with one another, but that doesn't mean they haven't understood what you are after.

3) You think being called "naive" is childish? Seriously? You need to get a slightly thicker skin. Believe it or not, my intention was to actually try and help you - I, like others, gave you pointers on what I thought was wrong with the suit and when you made references to trying other tailors in the future I tried to give you advice which I thought would help you avoid getting burned in the future. That said, you are clearly unable to make use of any information being given to you unless it is all 100% consistent and spoon fed to you in bite size pieces so I think i'll leave it there - no point in trying to discuss this any further with you.

 

 

 

Haha, well, I expected more from a man on a gentleman's forum. I guess I expected too much. I would appreciate it if you took your ad hominem attacks to another thread.

 

 

To those who were patient with this self-admitted greenhorn, thank you for your suggestions and advice.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterFu View Post

Here are my 2 cents (and some repetition of what others have said):

 

1. As I said before, don't try any more shaping or waist suppression in the jacket as it will lead to other problems. You body type won't support it.

2. Get the pants fixed as it will make the whole look much better than its component parts.

 

My recommendation is that for your next suit you try a reasonably upscale RTW or, possibly, MTM brand that has a variety of patterns (BB being a good example). Work on matching one of the more generic patterns (used in RTW and MTM) to your body type. I suspect your tailor tried to give you an approximation of a currently "fashionable" suit (at least that is what the overly short jacket says to me) without a good starting point for what you (and your body type) look good in. What would have helped is if he had a completed and reasonably well fitting off the rack, or MTM suit, to act as a reference. For example, my best fully custom tailored suit has much in common with a BB MTM suit I wore to my initial measuring. The tailor looked at what was good and bad on the MTM garment (fit wise) and was able to make a lot of early calls on what needed to be done on my initial pattern. By the time basted stage fitting came around, he only needed to focus on tweaks to complete the pattern.

 

I know that people expect tailors to be designers, but that isn't how it works in my experience. Custom tailoring work best when you have already figured out what styles and themes work for you and they can focus on simply crafting the best fitting example of that style. Last but not least, my first bespoke suit was a mess for exactly the reasons I just outlined and, like you, I felt the tailor had "let me down" (and, in my case, taken an eye-watering amount of money). It wasn't until some time later that I began to understand what had actually happened. That very same tailor, a few years later, created the suit that I consider my best.

 

 

Thank you for the recommendations. I appreciate your thoughtfulness, tone, and lack of criticism. I will definitely keep this in mind for my next go around the tailor shop.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kulata View Post

Summary for your current suit:

1. If you insist on waist suppression then leave the suit jacket the way it is.
2. Try and get them to lengthen the jacket if possible.
3. Try and get them to fix the pants, looks like it isn't cut to sit on your natural waist line
4. Wear your suit and be happy with it. It isn't a disaster!

Future suits:

1. You have more than enough info to get something better in the future.

 

 

Thank you for the very useful summary. Its nice to see some constructive criticism. With my newly found motivation I will take it back and mention the problem with the pants and see if they can lengthen the jacket as well.

post #54 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by robetrw006 View Post

 

Haha, well, I expected more from a man on a gentleman's forum. I guess

SF a "gentleman's forum"? I did actually LOL at that notion. 

 

Come here for the neat "WAYW" threads.

Come here to get (often impolite but useful) advise and criticism.

Come here for the drama & LULZ.

 

Don't come here looking for gentlemen or civil discourse.

 

biggrin.gif

post #55 of 69

I replied to a different thread a couple days ago with some of the same fit issues you have, but yours arent as severe.

 

If you're interested, take a look here: http://www.styleforum.net/t/265924/the-tailors-thread-fit-feedback-and-alteration-suggestions/3270#post_6343658

 

Finally, try to get a photo of someone about your size, dressed as you would like to dress, and take that photo with you to the tailor.

 

look at the photo of people who look good and try to determine what makes them look good.

post #56 of 69
post #57 of 69

Robert, you got some good advice here.  Let me add my few cents worth.  The main problem is the tailor made you a suit that was made to fit a totally different body type than yours.  I am not sure if this is because the tailor misunderstood what you wanted or you did not know what will look good with your body type.  The modern suit that you see in all the mags are made for guys that are slim - ie slim lapels, short jacket length, skin tight legs, no pleat pants, skinny shoulders.  Basically everything that works against what you've got.

 

Next time you go to a tailor ask him what he thinks will look good without giving him any of your own comments.  Take what he tells you and compare to you own demands and ask lots of questions as to why he chose certain things and why what you think will not work.  ie interview the tailor until you find one that seems to understand what will look good on you whilst trying to balance what you want.

 

To address some of your demands - you want a more sculpted look (less boxy) but you really don't have a waist to carry that off.  Basically your option is to widen the shoulders to give you the shape that you are after.  I don't mean 1980s wide but wider than what you got.  With a wider shoulder you will need the lapel width to balance accordingly - a skinny lapel that you have is much too narrow for your body shape.  Pick a wider lapel - ask the tailor how wide can you go without looking clownish, and then dial it back just a little to give you your version of the narrow lapel look.

 

As some posters have pointed out the modern jacket is much too short for your shape - you're wide so a short jacket will scale even more boxy.  That means you need a longer jacket to make your top look more rectangular - take it to the bottom of your butt and then go down another inch.

 

I think the quarters are also too close in your jacket - the bottom should be more open V shape when buttoned.  As someone also said double rear vents are the way to go.  With a slight bit of flare you will get a more sculpted shape as well.  I would play around with the height of the front buttons to see which level looks best.

 

As for pants - low waisted pants look awful on husky guys.  Stick with a deeper seat and use suspenders to hold them up.  Belts will cause the muffin top look.  Finally flat fronts also don't work well with guys that are thick in the middle.  Double pleats will be much more comfortable and allow the legs to drape better because the legs will be wider.  Your suit - you went from a wide waist to skinny legs, it's not going to work - too dramatic.

 

As for colour - use darker shades and vertical lines to elongate your look.

 

Finally - $4k in HK is not going to get you what you want.  You'd be better going to M&S and getting a suit off the rack.  Be prepared to spend $7k and up.

post #58 of 69
Robert, the silhouette you wish for is impossible with a corpulent body like yours. The jacket the tailor made for you is technically sound and is how a technically-sound jacket looks like on a corpulent customer.

Do not have anything on the jacket changed.

The trousers are however quite unfortunate.

I would not return to the tailor for further alterations. HKD 4K is too little money to expect multiple alterations.
Edited by hymo - 5/16/13 at 1:13pm
post #59 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kulata View Post

Summary for your current suit:

1. If you insist on waist suppression then leave the suit jacket the way it is.
2. Try and get them to lengthen the jacket if possible.
3. Try and get them to fix the pants, looks like it isn't cut to sit on your natural waist line
4. Wear your suit and be happy with it. It isn't a disaster!

Future suits:

1. You have more than enough info to get something better in the future.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hymo View Post

Robert, the silhouette you wish for is impossible with a corpulent body like yours. The jacket the tailor made for you is technically sound and is how a technically-sound jacket looks like on a corpulent customer.

Do not have anything on the jacket changed.

The trousers are however quite unfortunate.

I would not return to the tailor for further alterations. HKD 4K is too little money to expect multiple alterations.

 

Again, I'm getting mixed reviews on the suit. I would like to have the jacket lengthened. TBH, I never envisioned the jacket being that short, even in the earliest stages of the suit. I guess I never mentioned anything about the length because I was so distracted/unsatisfied with the chest and waist area of the jacket that I paid no attention to jacket length and the trousers: my mistake.

 

Here is my question to the forum, particularly kulata and hymo: if I get the jacket lengthened, is it going to cause further problems to the suit? Is it going to make it even more of an unsuitable suit? The thing I worry about is a longer jacket length might create more unbalance. I'm particularly thinking about the lapels in this case. They are already on the small side; will a longer jacket make this stand out even more? Perhaps this is not where my focus/worry should lie, but as mentioned many times before, I'm really new to the suiting world.

 

The real question here is: do I ask them to lengthen the jacket or not? Perhaps Dib will jump in here again and ridicule me for not being able to know the good suggestions from the not-so-good, but I don't know who to listen to and who not to. Some say lengthen the jacket, others say don't. Is there possibly an undisputed guru who knows a lot about suit construction that would be able to provide a final answer to the lengthen/don't lengthen question?

 

 

 

PS --hymo

 

I'm not too concerned with taking the suit back for alterations. I was told I could bring it back anytime for them. I'm not sure if I would ever go back for a total overhaul, but relatively simple things like a bit of work on the pants and lengthening the jacket shouldn't be a big deal.

post #60 of 69

Robert, I don't think you are getting mixed reviews at all - everyone is pretty much saying the same thing. Phillycheese's overview is spot-on. Yes, you need a longer jacket, and yes, the trousers are wrong. But really, as the old saying goes, if you want to get where you need to go, you don't want to start from here: in other words, the whole style of the suit (a vaguely mid-1960s moddish house one) is inappropriate for your build. I wouldn't waste too much time and money trying to make this work. If they will do a few things to make it wearable, fine - but my advice would be just chalk this one up to experience and do things differently next time: try a lot more OTR suits and see what cuts actually work for you. Think whether you might be better off with simpy buying OTR and getting it altered as necessary.

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