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post #61 of 77
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxxamazexxx View Post

As someone who's potentially a customer of your $350 half-canvassed suit, I don't think it will be good business for you, because:

1. Your target customers will be those college students/grads getting their first suit for a job interview. They are more likely to go to the mall/department store and get something they can recognize, rather than spend their nervous money on something with little mass market recognition. To them, brand is quality, and you can't compete with J Crew, Banana Republic, etc. on that.

2. As for the minority of college students/grads like myself who sneak around SF and appreciate true quality, they will actually go for the full-canvassed suit. Because there's no reason to get a half-canvassed at $350 when you can get a full-canvassed at $500. Some of them may still buy the half-canvassed as a backup or second suit, but I doubt if volume will justify your effort.

That's not to say you can't make it happen. You will have to go another way instead of just making the suit and putting it out there. It will take some genius marketing because talking about quality to those frat bros and starving liberal arts college grads already sounds like a lost cause.

There's another market for your suit, the SF member type who will buy a decent, half-canvassed suit at $350 but is not actually in need of one, because they already have something else better. To attract these people you should make your suits 'unique' in some aspects, such as fabric, styling, construction, and make them in short-run collections to stir interest. You can run parallel collections within the Sartorial line in order to capitalize on the interest and avoid the half-canvassed line eating too much into the full-canvassed line. (I suppose there will be economies of scale with regards to material and labor too.)

Thanks for weighing in - you definitely provide food for thought and I am admittedly still on the fence regarding this. Target customers are not only college students/grads, however. My guess is the average man across the US looks to spend $300-$400 for a suit. Sad, but true, as this range usually offers next to nothing in terms of quality. But you're right - the average man is not here on Styleforum or shopping online. They just go to a Macy's or JAB and buy a suit one size too big and are done with it. So rather than the average male, I guess what I'm going after are those guys that shop J.Crew, BB or Suit Supply, and trying to beat them by offering a superior product at a lower price point. Granted this would be on a MUCH smaller scale and to a much smaller market - these would be the guys here on the forum and/or shopping online. I have also found that simple word of mouth is the best advertising (as always), and the Benjamin Sartorial line has really picked up and business has continued to increase because of this in the last year. I get several emails saying their friend and/or colleague recommended us for our suits.

Also, some guys will have a hard time stretching their budget to $525 for a suit as you're talking a 50% increase from $350. While some may be willing to stretch I'm guessing many will have a hard time justifying or simply cannot. I guess at the end of the day, I'm not necessarily looking to do a huge business. I'm simply looking to fill a niche and demand. With the Wizard of Aahs vendor no longer around with his Baroni and Marco Valentino suits, it seems he has left a gap in this price range, and although I have no intimate knowledge of his business it seems that he had quite a large following and did well. With the economy being lousy and jobs market being tough with no near-term turnaround in sight, I'm thinking that this price range may prove to be very important.

I still haven't totally thought it through completely, but for sure there will be obvious differences between the two lines. A fully canvassed suit does make a significant difference already, but I realize few outside of the forum can decipher this (or are even aware of this at all).

Thanks again for your thoughts - I appreciate the discussion.
post #62 of 77
Thread Starter 
I should add that my baby is still the Sartorial line. We are nearly sold out (again), and now main restock/delivery for the basics will not be until early/mid September.

That being said I'm trying to see if I can get an small test order of the new Napoli model out to you guys sooner - maybe some time early/mid July. Hoping for good news regarding this next week. Will keep you guys posted! This would be the Sartorial Line though - fully canvassed at $525.
post #63 of 77

I'd like to just give my input on this although I realize I have no credibility as a new member.

 

I work for a hotel which probably has the most strict brand standards of any hotel in the world. Although I'm comparing apples to oranges, it's just worth it to mention that we know we're offering an exception "product" and honestly, the pricing reflects that sometimes and sometimes deals can be had. However, we would never advertise a discount as it doesn't fit our image.

 

Second, and building somewhat on the above, I have a suggestion. Instead of trying to expand by offering new products that many view as a lesser quality to attract new buyers, it may be worth it to also consider focusing more on expanding what you currently offer in terms of both styles and customer base. To be honest, I have seen no mention of your products anywhere but SF and even so, it took quite a bit of browsing before I first came across your brand and website.

 

All that being said - I literally just ordered one of your Sartorial suits this morning. The funny thing is - I was in the market for a half canvassed suit because I am very price conscious and my previous suits have been from SuitSupply. After looking around, I really found nothing else remotely in the same price range with as good of feedback as your products so I spent a little extra than I normally would to get a better product. If your products had more exposure, it's quite possible my previous two suit purchases would have been from you rather than SuitSupply despite the price differential. 

post #64 of 77
Just stumbled across this thread, and thought I'd throw it out there that I would potentially be interested in a ≈$350 half canvassed suit that I'd use as a beater/back-up, if the fit is right. Please don't make it too slim and trendy fitting. smile.gif I'll also add that I'm a recent college grad and have just acquired my first full canvas suit with another on the way. But as I said, a cheaper, half canvass suit to use as a beater (think wedding or cruise where I know I'm going to get trashed and likely end up spilling food or drink on my clothing, or better yet, have a female furiously ripping off my clothing and throwing it on the floor..... wishful thinking shog[1].gif) is an enticing prospect.
post #65 of 77
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ats200 View Post

I'd like to just give my input on this although I realize I have no credibility as a new member.

I work for a hotel which probably has the most strict brand standards of any hotel in the world. Although I'm comparing apples to oranges, it's just worth it to mention that we know we're offering an exception "product" and honestly, the pricing reflects that sometimes and sometimes deals can be had. However, we would never advertise a discount as it doesn't fit our image.

Second, and building somewhat on the above, I have a suggestion. Instead of trying to expand by offering new products that many view as a lesser quality to attract new buyers, it may be worth it to also consider focusing more on expanding what you currently offer in terms of both styles and customer base. To be honest, I have seen no mention of your products anywhere but SF and even so, it took quite a bit of browsing before I first came across your brand and website.

All that being said - I literally just ordered one of your Sartorial suits this morning. The funny thing is - I was in the market for a half canvassed suit because I am very price conscious and my previous suits have been from SuitSupply. After looking around, I really found nothing else remotely in the same price range with as good of feedback as your products so I spent a little extra than I normally would to get a better product. If your products had more exposure, it's quite possible my previous two suit purchases would have been from you rather than SuitSupply despite the price differential. 

Thanks for your thoughts and for taking the time to share your insights.

Discounting is indeed a tricky business for luxury brands, but being that we at ehaberdasher are already in the business of discounting (that is the definition/core of our business), there's not much escaping it for us. We do try to draw a hard line and in general do not offer any further discounts since we already offer huge discounts on most of our merchandise.

Trying to increase exposure can get very expensive - and without any guarantee of success. We've done print advertising in magazines (Fortune, Men's Journal, etc) with little to no results. We know that Social Media can provide many new eyeballs, and simply haven't really dedicated much time/energy to these outlets (as we should, we know). The truth is, it has been somewhat of a struggle dealing with production issues, and the demand for our product, small as it is (compared to established recognized brands), is already difficult for us to maintain. Hopefully that will be much improved moving forward, but we have no guarantee that this will be the case. Also, truth be told, I like the forum and appreciate it's members. It is a special community, and honestly, I'm not looking to be the next Suit Supply. I'm quite pleased to be offering great quality garments at a great value to a customer that understands and appreciates it for what it is. As I mentioned before, I'm not looking to do a huge business. Again, not everyone has the budget for a fully canvassed garment. I've received numerous messages from customers (many presumably from SF or AAAC) asking if I had any suggestions for a decent quality suit in the $300-$400 range for either themselves or their sons. While many men who are gainfully employed might be willing to stretch and go for the $525 Sartorial Collection suit, there are some guys (presumably younger and/or more on a budget, or fluctuating weight, etc) who don't want to or can't spend that much.

Maybe I'm just trying to convince myself that this is a good idea... it doesn't take a lot of extra effort on my part to test the market so I may at the very least see how it goes... just want to first make sure production for the Sartorial line is in good order.
post #66 of 77
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyswatter View Post

Just stumbled across this thread, and thought I'd throw it out there that I would potentially be interested in a ≈$350 half canvassed suit that I'd use as a beater/back-up, if the fit is right. Please don't make it too slim and trendy fitting. smile.gif I'll also add that I'm a recent college grad and have just acquired my first full canvas suit with another on the way. But as I said, a cheaper, half canvass suit to use as a beater (think wedding or cruise where I know I'm going to get trashed and likely end up spilling food or drink on my clothing, or better yet, have a female furiously ripping off my clothing and throwing it on the floor..... wishful thinking shog[1].gif) is an enticing prospect.

This makes sense to me. Not sure if this is true, but certainly true of me in that not everything in my closet is best of the best. Yes I have the Zegna, Cucinelli, Borrelli, Barba, Battisti in my closet, but I also have some (gasp!) Gap, J.Crew and Next stuff too. Right now I'm sitting at home wearing a Gap hoodie and Next slim fit chinos. No I will not go out in public like this, but I'm wearing them! smile.gif I actually have several pair of the Next slim fit chinos in a variety of colors - they're a great fit and only 20 GBP!
post #67 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by eHaberdasher View Post

This makes sense to me. Not sure if this is true, but certainly true of me in that not everything in my closet is best of the best. Yes I have the Zegna, Cucinelli, Borrelli, Barba, Battisti in my closet, but I also have some (gasp!) Gap, J.Crew and Next stuff too. Right now I'm sitting at home wearing a Gap hoodie and Next slim fit chinos. No I will not go out in public like this, but I'm wearing them! smile.gif I actually have several pair of the Next slim fit chinos in a variety of colors - they're a great fit and only 20 GBP!

My post was totally sincere despite my lame attempt at a joke. I subscribed to this thread and will be following closely. I hope the suit you describe comes to fruition. smile.gif
post #68 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by eHaberdasher View Post


Thanks for your thoughts and for taking the time to share your insights.

Discounting is indeed a tricky business for luxury brands, but being that we at ehaberdasher are already in the business of discounting (that is the definition/core of our business), there's not much escaping it for us. We do try to draw a hard line and in general do not offer any further discounts since we already offer huge discounts on most of our merchandise.

Trying to increase exposure can get very expensive - and without any guarantee of success. We've done print advertising in magazines (Fortune, Men's Journal, etc) with little to no results. We know that Social Media can provide many new eyeballs, and simply haven't really dedicated much time/energy to these outlets (as we should, we know). The truth is, it has been somewhat of a struggle dealing with production issues, and the demand for our product, small as it is (compared to established recognized brands), is already difficult for us to maintain. Hopefully that will be much improved moving forward, but we have no guarantee that this will be the case. Also, truth be told, I like the forum and appreciate it's members. It is a special community, and honestly, I'm not looking to be the next Suit Supply. I'm quite pleased to be offering great quality garments at a great value to a customer that understands and appreciates it for what it is. As I mentioned before, I'm not looking to do a huge business. Again, not everyone has the budget for a fully canvassed garment. I've received numerous messages from customers (many presumably from SF or AAAC) asking if I had any suggestions for a decent quality suit in the $300-$400 range for either themselves or their sons. While many men who are gainfully employed might be willing to stretch and go for the $525 Sartorial Collection suit, there are some guys (presumably younger and/or more on a budget, or fluctuating weight, etc) who don't want to or can't spend that much.

Maybe I'm just trying to convince myself that this is a good idea... it doesn't take a lot of extra effort on my part to test the market so I may at the very least see how it goes... just want to first make sure production for the Sartorial line is in good order.

 

I completely understand, I'm excited to get my first order from you and would like to order more in the future when my budget permits so I hope everything is successful as you venture into this new product!

 

My only comment would be that while your brand and business focus on discounts and great value, it focuses on extremely high quality at the same time so that's what my comparison was although I didn't make it quite as clear as I could have.

post #69 of 77
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyswatter View Post

My post was totally sincere despite my lame attempt at a joke. I subscribed to this thread and will be following closely. I hope the suit you describe comes to fruition. smile.gif

Wasn't lame... who doesn't want some hottie ripping off our clothing (as long as it's not the Sartorial line!)?! Thanks for your input though... stay tuned!
post #70 of 77
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ats200 View Post

I completely understand, I'm excited to get my first order from you and would like to order more in the future when my budget permits so I hope everything is successful as you venture into this new product!

My only comment would be that while your brand and business focus on discounts and great value, it focuses on extremely high quality at the same time so that's what my comparison was although I didn't make it quite as clear as I could have.

No worries - once again I appreciate your feedback. There is a lot of discussion with pros and cons for luxury brands and discounting. At the end of the day it seems everyone does it - especially when it comes to clothing/fashion with most brands offering a diffusion line, which is of course what we are considering for the Benjamin line.

Regardless, we'll keep you and everyone posted. In the mean time please let us know how the Benjamin Sartorial suit works for you!
post #71 of 77

I really want to know the current process of this plan :)

post #72 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxxamazexxx View Post
 

As someone who's potentially a customer of your $350 half-canvassed suit, I don't think it will be good business for you, because:

 

1. Your target customers will be those college students/grads getting their first suit for a job interview. They are more likely to go to the mall/department store and get something they can recognize, rather than spend their nervous money on something with little mass market recognition. To them, brand is quality, and you can't compete with J Crew, Banana Republic, etc. on that.

 

2. As for the minority of college students/grads like myself who sneak around SF and appreciate true quality, they will actually go for the full-canvassed suit. Because there's no reason to get a half-canvassed at $350 when you can get a full-canvassed at $500. Some of them may still buy the half-canvassed as a backup or second suit, but I doubt if volume will justify your effort.

 

That's not to say you can't make it happen. You will have to go another way instead of just making the suit and putting it out there. It will take some genius marketing because talking about quality to those frat bros and starving liberal arts college grads already sounds like a lost cause.

 

There's another market for your suit, the SF member type who will buy a decent, half-canvassed suit at $350 but is not actually in need of one, because they already have something else better. To attract these people you should make your suits 'unique' in some aspects, such as fabric, styling, construction, and make them in short-run collections to stir interest. You can run parallel collections within the Sartorial line in order to capitalize on the interest and avoid the half-canvassed line eating too much into the full-canvassed line. (I suppose there will be economies of scale with regards to material and labor too.)

 

I disagree with the above. I tend to fall into the second category, and the truth is that while I would like to purchase those beautiful fully-canvassed suits at 500$ a piece, it's just not possible for me. Personnally, coming straigh out of university with debts and starting my career where I need to be in suit everyday means that I need more than just one suit. While I would gladly put 500$ for a nice ''i need this for formal occasion'' suit, when you suddenly need 5-6 suits and you've got a low income, the difference between 350$/suit and 500/suit is very big.

 

If you just take a look at the suitsupply thread for a little while, you can see that people went completely crazy when the outlet started selling half-canvassed suits for 250-300$, even if the supply was really limited. I feel like a half-canvassed, well-built suit at 350$ would be an extremely nice competition for everyone thats looking at Suitsupply (which is a good amount of people).

 

With that said count me in as someone very interested in a 350 half canvassed suit.

post #73 of 77
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by billabong View Post

I really want to know the current process of this plan smile.gif

Still tweaking the model... what fabrics would you be looking for? We are planning to offer basics but also a few fancies... but still at least a few months out.
post #74 of 77
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmtttt View Post

I disagree with the above. I tend to fall into the second category, and the truth is that while I would like to purchase those beautiful fully-canvassed suits at 500$ a piece, it's just not possible for me. Personnally, coming straigh out of university with debts and starting my career where I need to be in suit everyday means that I need more than just one suit. While I would gladly put 500$ for a nice ''i need this for formal occasion'' suit, when you suddenly need 5-6 suits and you've got a low income, the difference between 350$/suit and 500/suit is very big.

If you just take a look at the suitsupply thread for a little while, you can see that people went completely crazy when the outlet started selling half-canvassed suits for 250-300$, even if the supply was really limited. I feel like a half-canvassed, well-built suit at 350$ would be an extremely nice competition for everyone thats looking at Suitsupply (which is a good amount of people).

With that said count me in as someone very interested in a 350 half canvassed suit.

Thanks for weighing in and I do tend to agree. We hope to test the market soon and if all goes well give Suitsupply a run for their money!
post #75 of 77
I really hope this comes to fruition, as I'd definitely be interested. I just hope the cut isn't overly slim, especially the pants.
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