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From eHABERDASHER - a half canvassed suit in $325 - $350 range. Thoughts? - Page 2

post #16 of 77

I think there's potential value to it.  I have students ask me on a fairly frequent basis where they can get a staple suit for interviews, meetings, and internships that is well made enough to be worth buying but costs less than $500.  You would be a useful referral. 
 

post #17 of 77
I think there are plenty of businesses that provide a half canvassed suit for that price range, I don't think it is wise to enter into such a saturated market. e.g. TM Lewin, M&S Sartorial line

I believe people looking for suits in $300-400 range will be keen to buy it in the shops rather than in the website.

just my $0.02
Edited by add911_11 - 5/8/13 at 11:48pm
post #18 of 77
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aravenel View Post

The point is market segmentation. The folks who buy $300 suits are usually different than those who buy $500 suits, at least if the threads that pop up around here all the time are any guide. Why not sell to both if you can?

I don't think he's trying to create a hyper-exclusive luxury brand that is going to be diluted by selling a half-fused product.

You said it yourself, you took a leap of faith. It's much easier to take that leap when it's $300 vs $500.

Also, I don't think he's targeting the B&M Macy's shoppers. He's targeting the people who come to this site and ask "What suit should I get for $300?"

Just my opinion.

Yes - this is precisely the point. Not everyone can afford or even stretch to $500+ for a suit, and based on what many here on the board are saying, the $350 level suits don't seem to offer much quality and good fit. I may end up just doing a small run to see how they fly after doing a little due diligence.
post #19 of 77
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by othertravel View Post

I'm a bit torn about this; would you still be using premium fabrics (i.e. LP, H&S, etc...)?

Yes - but the finer fabrics will of course be reserved for the Sartorial line. The lower Benjamin line would be half canvassed with nice fabrics but not the premium fabrics we plan to offer for the Sartorial line. Also another difference would be finished non-functional sleeves for the non-Sartorial line, since most guys wouldn't care to have functional sleeve buttons put in on a $350 suit...
post #20 of 77
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by add911_11 View Post

I think there are plenty of businesses that provide a half canvassed suit for that price range, I don't think it is wise to enter into such a saturated market. e.g. TM Lewin, M&S Sartorial line

I believe people looking for suits in $300-400 range will be keen to buy it in the shops rather than in the website.

just my $0.02

You are right in that it is a more saturated market, but again I will have to see what is out there with the competition, and if I'm confident we can offer a superior product for potentially less, then why not?! Someone earlier mentioned the Wizard of Aahhs... although I never knew him personally he certainly seemed to meet a great demand and all via online.
post #21 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by aravenel View Post

The point is market segmentation. The folks who buy $300 suits are usually different than those who buy $500 suits, at least if the threads that pop up around here all the time are any guide. Why not sell to both if you can?

I don't think he's trying to create a hyper-exclusive luxury brand that is going to be diluted by selling a half-fused product.

You said it yourself, you took a leap of faith. It's much easier to take that leap when it's $300 vs $500.

Also, I don't think he's targeting the B&M Macy's shoppers. He's targeting the people who come to this site and ask "What suit should I get for $300?"

Just my opinion.

 

I'd first like to say that I'm also just offering my personal and non-professional opinion.  I was a commercial loan underwriter for about 4 years and am attending business school in the fall, so this topic is interesting to me, but I have no direct industry experience here.  I don't want my quote-reply to be misconstrued as trolling/arguing smile.gif

 

1. The folks who buy $300 suits are usually different than those who buy $500 suits, at least if the threads that pop up around here all the time are any guide. Why not sell to both if you can?

 

Since this second line will be targeting different customers, there may be additional marketing time/expenses needed to reach these customers.  There is also increased competition to consider in this price bracket, from retailers with established brands, distribution channels, etc.  Again, buyers in this price range may not be informed, may be indifferent, or may not be willing to buy sight-unseen.  It is a different demographic after all.  There are also opportunity costs involved with time, design, sourcing, and cash flow.  There may be hard costs involved as well - pre-production, inventory holding costs, additional warehousing if expanding, etc.  

 

With that said, there is definitely a market out there for these suits as others have mentioned.  A small batch to gauge the market is probably pretty low risk, all things considered, but I think there may be some others to consider.  Again, I am being very liberal with my assumptions here:

 

Can the extra time/effort/money be better spent expanding the current line?  Additional fabrics, sports coats, restocked inventory (these all seem to be currently in progress on the main thread).  Will adding these changes to the Sartorial line be cheaper/quicker than starting a new line?  Does the lower price mean less profit per suit or is that offset by being half-fused/using different fabrics?  Is it better to focus on selling more of the existing products, such as through increased advertising?  YLS mentioned that "most" would plop down the extra $150 for a fully canvased suit, but the opposite is also likely.  At the $300 price range, it may be difficult for many to justify spending an extra 50% on a better quality suit, especially when their budget for a suit is modest.  This issue isn't necessarily limited to suits or price-conscious customers either; the Sam Hober vs. Kent Wang grenadine tie discussion is an example ("What's another $15 for a bespoke tie when you're already spending $75 on a tie?") 

 

Will the new line cannibalize sales from the existing line (I probably would have opted for the lower line rather than springing for the Sartorial line had that been an option).  Maybe the line isn't hyper-exclusive luxury, but there are certainly some benefits to simplified product offerings, too.  

 

The biggest issue for me is still: "I have a great product right now.  Have I pursued all avenues to maximize this product yet?"  I would put all options (including expanding product offerings) on the table and let the cost/benefit analysis put things into perspective.

 

Thanks for letting me play along.  I'd totally buy one, by the way.  icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif

post #22 of 77
I'm a fan of your current product lineup. I assume that you would do the half-canvassed equally well - providing excellent value. I wouldn't buy it, though. At least not for long-term staples. If the fabrics were ones that I'd wear occassionally - glen plaids, browns, etc - I would consider purchasing one or two, but as someone trying to assemble  a quality wardrobe, half-canvassed is generally out.
 
As a Canadian, shipping costs are substantial and duties may or may not be levied on the purchase. The cheaper and less unique the product gets, the less likely I am to put up with these costs and uncertainties.
 

My first reaction, when you asked in the affiliate thread, was that this cheapens the brand you have worked to establish in Benjamin. My initial thought was that you should at least brand the half-canvassed line differently to avoid damaging the Benjamin name. 

 

It seems like there's still a lot of potential to keep improving your current lineup. I'm among the many who have been waiting for the next batch of suits and sport coats, for example. I have bought 2 suits from local tailors while waiting for the restock. I would've bought at least one from you if a Classico 43r had been available. Entering into the half-canvassed world makes me think that you're trying to ride two horses.

 

Would offering half-canvassed help get you better fabric prices or better production times because you would be ordering in greater quantity?

 

I do think there could be a huge market for them, generally. There are a lot of people who graduate school and suddenly need a wardrobe full of suits. The idea of getting 5 well-cut suits for $1500-1750 is quite appealing. 
post #23 of 77
There is the possibility that he cannibalizes a bit from his existing line--but thats a risk any time any company introduces a lower-priced line. They still do it, because you *can* end up making more overall.

The point about being able to keep production up is a good one--given that it's been hard to keep the Benjamins in stock (good problem to have, but problem nonetheless)--would this make it harder? Could be a different manufacturer, so maybe it has no impact, but it's a good point nonetheless.

Personally, I'd think if you could produce a decent $350 suit *with a good cut* you could do well. That price bracket is a wasteland in terms of suits that don't look like a potato sack with lapels--it's all Jos Bank and Macys and whatnot. I'd think that if you could make something that was cut a bit more towards the "SF-approved" cut--softer construction, more open quarters, etc--that you could get the recommendations around here when someone asks what suit to get for $300. That market probably won't make you rich, but it's a market that's underserved IMO. I'd imagine that Wizard of Aahs got decent referral traffic from here--I know my first post-college suit came from him after reading this site--so why not try to make a move on that market?

Anyways, just my opinion. Not sure what it would take to do a trial run, but it could be a good experiment.
post #24 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by eHaberdasher View Post

You are right in that it is a more saturated market, but again I will have to see what is out there with the competition, and if I'm confident we can offer a superior product for potentially less, then why not?! Someone earlier mentioned the Wizard of Aahhs... although I never knew him personally he certainly seemed to meet a great demand and all via online.

I don't have much experience in this realm, but from what I've read, a saturated market isn't necessarily a bad thing -- it means others have gone before you and found demand. Think of pretty much any successful company today, and they probably weren't the first to market -- they just executed better than the competition. Trying to enter a market where you don't see ANY competition suggests that maybe no one wants what you're offering at the price you're charging.

My gut reaction is that they'd sell well -- ever since Lands' End raised the price and changed the styling of their Year'rounder suits, I've kinda been at a loss when people who visit my site ask me to recommend a sub-$500 starter suit. The choices in that range (namely, J. Crew, Banana Republic, Tommy Hilfiger, Lands' End, and SuitSupply) all seem to have what I'd think of as deal-breaker problems. A $350 suit in the Benjamin Classico cut, half-canvassed with non-functional cuffs would be superior in every way. I would totally recommend those every chance I get. biggrin.gif

But my gut's a terrible gauge. I figure the best tactic, as others have mentioned, is put out a small test run and see how it goes.
post #25 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by thisfits View Post

I don't have much experience in this realm, but from what I've read, a saturated market isn't necessarily a bad thing -- it means others have gone before you and found demand. Think of pretty much any successful company today, and they probably weren't the first to market -- they just executed better than the competition. Trying to enter a market where you don't see ANY competition suggests that maybe no one wants what you're offering at the price you're charging.

My gut reaction is that they'd sell well -- ever since Lands' End raised the price and changed the styling of their Year'rounder suits, I've kinda been at a loss when people who visit my site ask me to recommend a sub-$500 starter suit. The choices in that range (namely, J. Crew, Banana Republic, Tommy Hilfiger, Lands' End, and SuitSupply) all seem to have what I'd think of as deal-breaker problems. A $350 suit in the Benjamin Classico cut, half-canvassed with non-functional cuffs would be superior in every way. I would totally recommend those every chance I get. biggrin.gif

But my gut's a terrible gauge. I figure the best tactic, as others have mentioned, is put out a small test run and see how it goes.

Good point--if you could get the ThisFits/PTO/DWW crowd recommending your suits for starter suits, that'd probably drive even more traffic than this site.
post #26 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by eHaberdasher View Post

You are right in that it is a more saturated market, but again I will have to see what is out there with the competition, and if I'm confident we can offer a superior product for potentially less, then why not?! Someone earlier mentioned the Wizard of Aahhs... although I never knew him personally he certainly seemed to meet a great demand and all via online.

Haha, its seem you are determined, thats fine and wish you all the best.

I am sure your product will be good, try to get some media coverage.
post #27 of 77
I am down with half canvas Benjamin suits in the $350 price point. icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif
post #28 of 77
I'm a recent graduate in the UK. I actually have a Benjamin Sartorial suit which I bought a couple of years ago and continue to be delighted with. Many of my friends (and a lot of them ask me for advice about this kind of thing) would not spend $500 on a suit, however.

They would probably buy your cheaper half-canvassed option - I would certainly recommend it to them.
post #29 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by aravenel View Post


Personally, I'd think if you could produce a decent $350 suit *with a good cut* you could do well. That price bracket is a wasteland in terms of suits that don't look like a potato sack with lapels--it's all Jos Bank and Macys and whatnot.

Anyways, just my opinion. Not sure what it would take to do a trial run, but it could be a good experiment.

not really, brands like Charles Tyrwhitt and TM Lewin offer suits in this price range. They are fused, bu the fabrics are serviceable, the cuts are pretty decent, and they are typically side vented with higher arm holes.
post #30 of 77
Personally, I'd be all for it. The question I have is will you be able to drive business to your site? Really that's the big internet question at a lower price point. Will you have too many people who would probably just run to Mens Wearhouse and never buy your suit online, no matter how great the value? Or will you pick up the guy who begrudgingly pays $650 for J Crew now and would rather buy 2 of your $350 suits instead?

Would you consider offering some sport coats for say $250?
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