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French Tailoring Thread (e.g. Camps de Luca, Cifonelli, Smalto and etc.) - Page 13

post #181 of 819
Wonderful thread! There was an earlier mention of Gambler cornering the market, do they provide the best value? Do they speak English?
post #182 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTM View Post

Wonderful thread! There was an earlier mention of Gambler cornering the market, do they provide the best value? Do they speak English?

No idea if they speak English.

I meant cornering the market for cheap cheap MTM suits. I probably shouldn't have mentionned Gambler in this thread on bespoke tailoring, we're talking different worlds.

If you want to know more about the different MTM offerings in Paris I suggest you check out the link to my blog entry posted upthread, where I reviewed almost all the tailors, shirtmakers and bootmakers in Paris.
post #183 of 819
Hopefully this shameless self-linking can be forgiven, but I just published an interview with Marc de Luca of Camps de Luca fame. His answers were intriguing, quite like his house cut.

http://www.keikari.com/english/interview-with-marc-de-luca/
post #184 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirnelli View Post

clee1982 -- Seamaster Lux is size US34, not tall, and his French bespoke suits all look great as you can see on www.paul-lux.tumblr.com

Fassbinder -- Thanks for getting the thread back on track. I have some questions re Di Fiore, which is at the top of my list of tailors to try next (I'm from the breed of #menswear geeks who tries everybody once, unlike some of my buddies who stay true to one house for a lifetime):

1) How long ago did you have the suit made, and how much did it cost?
2) What other experience do you have with French tailors? Could you make some comparisons? I'm interested in knowing where Di Fiore sits on construction -- I understand he is more of the Italian school of lighter & supple construction.
3) How did you learn of Di Fiore and what drew you to him?
4) How would you rate the overall customer experience there?

Thanks.

1) The suit was made in September 2011. I don't want to get into the price thing as things may have changed and it is always best to ask the tailor directly. I will say that at the time it was more than 2000 and less than 3000 euro.

2) Concerning French tailors I have several Di Fiore suits and several Cifo. I am by no means an expert and not technical at all. I find both comfortable but the Cifo's are cut closer. The Cifo are a bit more sculpted and structured in the shoulders, waist and skirt. Cifo also has a higher armhole. The Di Fiore suit is a bit lighter and softer but nothing like a Neapolitan coat. However it is definitely more Italian school than English. It is extremely comfortable and I forget that I am wearing it, which is really the most important thing in my opinion. Everything fits pretty much spot on. The cut is a bit more middle of the road French than Cifo. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing as the Cifo suits definitely have a more stylized look. The finishing and handiwork on the Cifo is in a different league. But I am not a particularly demanding customer in this regard and find Di Fiore's finishing to be fine. Di Fiore's default notch is distinctive and definitely Parisian. I find it to be quite attractive. As someone noted above, the French styling is what it is. You either like it or you don't. Finally, his pants are generally excellent.

Di Fiore is pretty flexible about certain stylistic things within reason. The pictured suit has a bit of roping, which I requested, but I have other suits without any roping. I usually request the lightest shoulder padding that he is comfortable with. He can put a bit more or less ease in the chest, but it will not be structured english chest or a drapey Anderson chest; it will be a clean chest. The quarters of the jacket are open by default somewhat more than Cifo and definitely Italian in this regard, but not at all extreme. I have varied the lapel width on some orders. For the pictured suit I requested a wider lapel. We have also varied the length of the jacket and buttoning points, here and there, but I like his defaults. Both Cifo and Di Fiore cut a relatively shorter jacket than the English, like the Italians. My suits have no shoulder extension, but I know of one client who gets a bit of shoulder extension, creating a somewhat different and perhaps more relaxed look. I have never inquired as to how or why they settled on this extension, perhaps out of necessity because of the clients shape or perhaps for purely style reasons. In any event it looks quite attractive but I still feel too young for such a look.


3) I found him the old fashioned way, I was "grandfathered" in by a family member. Not very igent or #menswear, I know. And since there was virtually nothing on the web until now, it was really the only way. Since that time I have become a bit of a hobbyist myself wink.gif, so I won't hold it against you smile.gif.

4) I am not the most demanding customer and I certainly did not overly bother him with igent details. I pretty much just chose the cloth and gave feedback at fittings. I really find him to be a very nice and relaxed person to work with. Very personable. I have always been satisfied with his work and he has always corrected any problems that arose. But like I said, my requests have never been that unusual or demanding. I think he is a great value if you like the French style and more specifically his work. For his price I would not expect the level of finishing and handwork one finds at Camps or Cifo.
Edited by fassbinder - 5/25/13 at 1:33pm
post #185 of 819
post #186 of 819
Thanks Kuro for entertaining read.
post #187 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuro View Post

that Di Fiore suit is realy nice

massimo looks great here: http://therakeonline.com/atelier-luxury-designer-brands-artisans/young-man-go-to-cifonelli/#!prettyPhoto

fantastic read...this thread keeps on getting better (minus the asian location off-topic). Thank you Sir.

post #188 of 819
Thanks also Vraivio for sharing the Marc de Luca interview. I bookmarked your blog, which is a revelation.
post #189 of 819
the current issue of men's Precious covers French MC and has a spread covering Camps, Cifo, Smalto and Charvet.

https://www.facebook.com/MensPrecious
post #190 of 819
nice video on cifonelli: http://vimeo.com/68517083
post #191 of 819

I remember once hearing Charlie Davidson, whose Andover Shop I love, expressing the highest regard for Camps de Luca.  It was a surprising moment to witness two tailoring worlds -- the traditional American and the Parisian -- meeting.  

 

I was looking at Dirnelli's great site, and noticed the beautiful sportscoat that Julien de Luca was wearing, made by his grandfather Mario de Luca.  I especially like how the sleevehead seems more natural and less roped compared to most French jackets (there's less of "une cigarette").  If we look at JeffreyD's helpful illustration, the sleevehead looks more like the middle picture than the left one.  In all three of JeffreyD's pictures, there's the same amount of shoulder padding and width, but the sleevehead differs. 

 

Would it be possible for Camps to make a more natural sleevehead like the one on Julien de Luca's perfect sportscoat, without the prominent roping of their contemporary jackets?  I like everything else about their cut and shoulders.

 

 

 

 

Source: http://dirnelli.tumblr.com/image/53751943710

 

Source: http://www.styleforum.net/t/245858/shoulder-expression

post #192 of 819
post #193 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonSox View Post

Would it be possible for Camps to make a more natural sleevehead like the one on Julien de Luca's perfect sportscoat, without the prominent roping of their contemporary jackets?  

I'm sure it's possible. A good alterations tailor can add or remove cigarette/roping at will -- I've done experiments both ways. There are some pics of the results on my blog.

Therefore, if your local alterations guy can handle it, I don't see why the big league tailors at CdL could't rope as much or as little as a customer demands.

Caution however -- messing with the house style is something I've learned to avoid, from painful experience. Better to seek out a different tailor than to ask them to make a garment that is different from the house style.

CdL once refused a client whose bespoke wish was simply to have a copy made of a Dior suit. They politely advised him to buy it from Dior instead. CdL are very curteous, as always, but if the scene had taken place with neapolitan tailors instead you can bet tempers would have flared.
post #194 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirnelli View Post

I'm sure it's possible. A good alterations tailor can add or remove cigarette/roping at will -- I've done experiments both ways. There are some pics of the results on my blog.

Therefore, if your local alterations guy can handle it, I don't see why the big league tailors at CdL could't rope as much or as little as a customer demands.

Caution however -- messing with the house style is something I've learned to avoid, from painful experience. Better to seek out a different tailor than to ask them to make a garment that is different from the house style.

CdL once refused a client whose bespoke wish was simply to have a copy made of a Dior suit. They politely advised him to buy it from Dior instead. CdL are very curteous, as always, but if the scene had taken place with neapolitan tailors instead you can bet tempers would have flared.

+1 on not changing the house style
post #195 of 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirnelli View Post

I'm sure it's possible. A good alterations tailor can add or remove cigarette/roping at will -- I've done experiments both ways. There are some pics of the results on my blog.

Therefore, if your local alterations guy can handle it, I don't see why the big league tailors at CdL could't rope as much or as little as a customer demands.

Caution however -- messing with the house style is something I've learned to avoid, from painful experience. Better to seek out a different tailor than to ask them to make a garment that is different from the house style.

CdL once refused a client whose bespoke wish was simply to have a copy made of a Dior suit. They politely advised him to buy it from Dior instead. CdL are very curteous, as always, but if the scene had taken place with neapolitan tailors instead you can bet tempers would have flared.

I did exactly that at A&S as a laugh but my suit did not come back as one of my beloved Huntsman.
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