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French Tailoring Thread (e.g. Camps de Luca, Cifonelli, Smalto and etc.) - Page 111

post #1651 of 1737
Quote:
Originally Posted by VRaivio View Post

...then you should have a look at what Oxxford Clothes makes in America. Hand-padded lapels take around an hour to make at least, if the maker is careful, and it's boring work -- I guess this explains the markup.

Unfortunately I have never purchase nor handle any clothes from Oxxford. However from their pictures it does look pretty promising.

There is a trick to hand padded lapels. If the coatmaker misses it can cause punkering on the lapels. This may cause the lapel facing "over floating" and not running smooth and pressed down.
post #1652 of 1737
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirnelli View Post

The opposition between handmade and machine made is articifial, it's like saying that a novel written on a computer is not as worthy as one written with a goose quill.

False comparison. In the novel's case the end product is the same: a printed book. Not so in handmade vs machine made suits.
And people who believe the difference is only aesthetic, are mistaken.
post #1653 of 1737
Way, way back Jeffrey Diduch did a pretty thorough and detailed discussion of hand-sewing vs machine sewing as it relates to various parts of a suit. I think Jeffrey's conclusion was that, in both cases, there is good and there is bad quality, and the quality is much more important at the end of the day than whether it was made by hand or machine. That being said, I believe there were certain parts of the jacket (I think it was either the lapel or the collar) where Jeffrey noted that the machines necessary to make the "proper" stitches were rare commodities, and that hand-sewing was therefore a pretty good indication of higher quality.
post #1654 of 1737
Quote:
Originally Posted by EliodA View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dirnelli View Post

The opposition between handmade and machine made is articifial, it's like saying that a novel written on a computer is not as worthy as one written with a goose quill.

False comparison. In the novel's case the end product is the same: a printed book. Not so in handmade vs machine made suits.
And people who believe the difference is only aesthetic, are mistaken.

The end product is the novel, i.e. the story, not the physical book. What tools were used to create the novel matters less than whether it is compelling or not. By the same token, machine made or handmade tells us nothing useful about whether the suit is any good. It's ticking boxes the same way buying a well known brand reassures folks about how much they spent. How many people can tell if their glass of Petrus is actually corked? The branding tells them what to think because they have not educated their senses enough to tell the difference. Same thing nowadays with the word 'handmade' which has now become a magical synonym for 'quality' when people actually have no idea what objective criterion to judge a suit by.
post #1655 of 1737
Quote:
Originally Posted by agjiffy View Post

Way, way back Jeffrey Diduch did a pretty thorough and detailed discussion of hand-sewing vs machine sewing as it relates to various parts of a suit. I think Jeffrey's conclusion was that, in both cases, there is good and there is bad quality, and the quality is much more important at the end of the day than whether it was made by hand or machine. That being said, I believe there were certain parts of the jacket (I think it was either the lapel or the collar) where Jeffrey noted that the machines necessary to make the "proper" stitches were rare commodities, and that hand-sewing was therefore a pretty good indication of higher quality.
This one?
http://tuttofattoamano.blogspot.com/2011/03/francesco-smalto-haute-couture.html?m=1
post #1656 of 1737
post #1657 of 1737
From what I read the the hand-stiched lapels are like a keystone of the traditional tailoring. That's why I was a bit disappointed to notice at the first sight the machine work on a Camps Deluca jacket but I will definitely ask for the a hand work on this part. I was wondering if you would have any advice about the fabric choice for a wedding suit ? Are the wool with mohair materials are really bringing a kind of formal touch ? Thx for your help...
post #1658 of 1737
I entirely agree that studied machine padding can make good collars and lapels.

However, I am aware that only with hand padding, the collar and the lapel can create a flatter and lighter weight finish.

Furthermore, collar should really be padded by hand given that it will hug the shirt and neck better than machine padded.

Again, I entirely agree that in heavier and dense traditional fabrics, machine padded lapel and collar makes little to no difference, and a good fit can still be achieved.

On a side point, I can always tell if the chest is machine padded as they are often less "hourglass" shaped when new.
post #1659 of 1737
post #1660 of 1737
Had the extreme honour of meeting Monsier Jean Grimbert the other day when I was hanging out at Berluti r.d. Sevres. He lives in Brussels now. Having acted like a star struck teenager I couldn't work up the courage to ask for a photo with him (much to my regret).
post #1661 of 1737
ˆWhy were you so star-struck?
post #1662 of 1737
Quote:
Originally Posted by VRaivio View Post

ˆWhy were you so star-struck?

The man is a legend.
post #1663 of 1737
Jeffrey Diduch says the new machines that do special stitches are much better, but they also cost a fortune. For example, the seat seam, the new machine is better than hand sewn, so he says. What values? What about other seams. The left fly has a row of stitches about 1 1/4 inch from front edge. When hand sewn it has a softness, which is comfortable, that the new machines can do? Strength and softness are two different values. The newest padding machines do a fine job, and great for the manufacturers. But, can they do curved rows of stitches? What about a long row then a couple of short rows? This would change the direction of the rows. No doubt they will have machines that will do this to In the future. Anyway, the machines don't do all the values yet. The quality is going up and the price for the consumer isn't. If you want values the machines can't do yet, then you have to find someone who can for the higher price. Some of this stuff, what customer would know? Tailors as individuals don't know it all either.
post #1664 of 1737
Wonka, why is he a legend -- for designing the Arnys "Rive Gauche" look or for something else? Mind you, there's little info about French makers on Styleforum outside this thread, and I'm curious.
post #1665 of 1737
Quote:
Originally Posted by VRaivio View Post

Wonka, why is he a legend -- for designing the Arnys "Rive Gauche" look or for something else? Mind you, there's little info about French makers on Styleforum outside this thread, and I'm curious.

 

I suppose for being the third generation of Arnys and for being ultra-dandy in how he was dressed.

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