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French Tailoring Thread (e.g. Camps de Luca, Cifonelli, Smalto and etc.) - Page 12

post #166 of 1050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

This is the last time I will address you on the topic as it is getting tedious answering the same thing over and over. Keep in mind that I am not privy to CdL's strategy.
1) I used Moroccans as an example because the country is much poorer than France but probably has more people (or at least more in proportion to the total pop) shopping for bespoke at the big Parisian houses, including their King. Once again your stat thing doesn't tell us all that much about what the rich do and this is culturally determined.
2) KL has three distinct communities that compose it: Chinese, Indian and Malays. This might be a better testing ground for SE Asia than the very homogenous Singapore.
3) Singapore is right by, they’ll probably do visits in plenty of country in the area and KL is well located for that. This is beside the point as I dunno if French people will move there but Singapore is like the antithesis of French culture and makes me want to throw my cigarette butts in people’s faces, I don’t think 95% of French Nationals could last more than 3 days there without going ballistic. This isn’t a point against Singapore, just pointing out cultural differences…
4) KL has some sort of shopping mall that won “world greatest shopping mall” at some point, build by Kuwaitis. They’re down with the luxury shopping and, yes, those Gulf people spend a lot there, it’s right by luxury hotels so I don’t doubt if CdL is near Hermès or whatever that they’ll get clients that way.
5) CdL might have judged that KL’s elite would be more susceptible than their neighbors to go for bespoke rather than flashy brands.
6) Costs might be lower in KL and they might want to minimize them at first
7) Maybe someone at CdL has a cousin over there or likes the place or whatever, most business decisions are taken for reasons that have nothing to do with rational analysis, familiarity being top.

I'm perfectly fine with hearing multiple opinions, but don't appreciate you foisting your argument on others and expecting (insisting) others accept it when it doesn't sound right as you so impolitely put below. Or when there are glaring inconsistencies, or your poo-poohing statistics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

Look, I know what I am talking about, you know how to use wikipedia. Just listen to what I say and don't come back with your 5 mins of google search as an argument.

1) On the stats thing indicating purchasing behavior: "Not long ago the British footwear brand George Cleverley took its wares to Singapore for a trunk show. It was a test-the-waters experiment, since the south-east Asian city-state is not a centre for bespoke shoe-wearers (locals tend to favour easy-on slippers). The Cleverley crew rented a hotel suite and stacked it with whisky and multi-thousand-pound, Goodyear-welted shoes made from exotic skins. Clients came to stare and sip. And then something unexpected happened: Cleverley sold more shoes in one day at that trunk show than on any other day in its 53-year history."

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/e206ebf6-2cb6-11e1-aaf5-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2U9Xj4aWL

The Rake in a Singapore publication.

How the rich in Singapore spend.

2) Singapore is a multi-racial society comprising of 4 ethnic groups. As homogeneous as KL.

3) No comments on Point 3.

4) Not sure which shopping mall you're referring to, tbh. But check out Marina Bay Sands in Singapore

5) Any how might they have judged that? (Btw, I'm beginning to think that you don't really have a clue about how the wealthy in Malaysia and Singapore behave and spend).

6) That's definitely plausible -- a point I made in my original comment

7) Eustace Tilley's comment about partnering up with a KL partner seems quite likely and is often how niche brands venture into the local market. Berluti partnered up with Club 21 (a major luxury retailer in Singapore) before coming away from Club 21 having tested the market, risk-free.
Edited by bboysdontcryy - 5/24/13 at 3:36am
post #167 of 1050
Quote:
Originally Posted by bboysdontcryy View Post

I'm perfectly fine with hearing multiple opinions, but don't appreciate you foisting your argument on others and expecting (insisting) others accept it when it doesn't sound right as you so impolitely put below. Or when there are glaring inconsistencies, or your poo-poohing statistics.
1) On the stats thing indicating purchasing behavior: "Not long ago the British footwear brand George Cleverley took its wares to Singapore for a trunk show. It was a test-the-waters experiment, since the south-east Asian city-state is not a centre for bespoke shoe-wearers (locals tend to favour easy-on slippers). The Cleverley crew rented a hotel suite and stacked it with whisky and multi-thousand-pound, Goodyear-welted shoes made from exotic skins. Clients came to stare and sip. And then something unexpected happened: Cleverley sold more shoes in one day at that trunk show than on any other day in its 53-year history."

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/e206ebf6-2cb6-11e1-aaf5-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2U9Xj4aWL

The Rake in a Singapore publication.

2) Singapore is a multi-racial society comprising of 4 ethnic groups.

3) No comments on Point 3.

4) Not sure which shopping mall you're referring to, tbh. But check out Marina Bay Sands in Singapore

5) Any how might they have judged that? (Btw, I'm beginning to think that you don't really have a clue about how the wealthy in Malaysia and Singapore behave and spend).

6) That's definitely plausible -- a point I made in my original comment

7) Eustace Tilley's comment about partnering up with a KL partner seems quite likely and is often how big brands venture into the local market. Berluti partnered up with Club 21 (a major luxury retailer in Singapore) before coming away from Club 21.

Look, I'm not trying to be hostile, it's just that your point is: Singapore is much richer. I already understood your point, it's not crazy but all I am trying to do is to say why CdL might have chosen KL, we cannot get further than that what we already said and at this point it is merely a thread derail. If I had been asked where CdL would open and had 2 mins to answer KL wouldn't have been in my top 5 (Id, have thought mainland China for some reason) but here you go, they went there, just offering some semi-plausible explanations, you just seem pissed they didn't chose Singapore and I can't do anything about that.
post #168 of 1050
Why'd I be pissed they didn't choose Singapore? Doesn't make a difference to me. I'm just using Singapore as an illustration of why I'd have thought that a great many number of cities (like Singapore, like Brunei, like Shanghai) would be a better springboard into Asia (SEAsia).

And I just didn't think your reason -- Gulf state tourism -- was carrying the day, or even the reason why CdL decided to set-up in KL. But ET's point abt local-partnership definitely seems plausible.

My main point isn't that Singapore is richer. It's that, I think there are many other cities that would be a better springboard (from an economic perspective) into Asia, KL not really being one of them, though a local partnership where it is risk-free (or minimal risks) for CdL definitely makes economic sense and swings the pendulum.

Thanks for your opinion, though, about Gulf-state tourism in KL. That's smth new.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clee1982 View Post

Kuala Lumpur

interesting choice, if you asked me I would imagine anyone going to Asia would be setting shop in Hong Kong/Singapore/Tokyo/ or even Shanghai/Beijing or Seoul/Taipei before it gets to Kuala Lumpur

Edited by bboysdontcryy - 5/24/13 at 12:33am
post #169 of 1050
Thread Starter 
Guys, please keep the thread on topic. That's enough speculation on CdL's strategy. The article is over a year old. Perhaps someone local can see if the KL outpost ever came to fruition.
post #170 of 1050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

My understanding would be that:

1) Still too poor
2) Their elites seem to be de-suited or not to care too much, I mean those I've seen had awful suits smile.gif
3) Main city is a fucking urban nightmare, you gonna sell to Australian tourists in Bali?
4) Not as many of these Gulf honeymooners
5) Further away

I can definitely agree that Kuala Lumpur is usually overlooked. I think the first time I went to Kuala Lumpur was 1992?. I was expecting what I saw in Bangkok instead I end up seeing an more exciting version of the then nice clean but dull Singapore (to the eyes of 10 years old). Taipei looked dull back then as well.
post #171 of 1050
Really tired of the KL discussion. Let’s try not to ruin a good thread with ridiculous back and forth arguments. I will try to get this thread back on topic. Here are some pics of a Di Fiore suit I am wearing today. I apologize in advance for the crappy iphone photos taken in favorite igent spots (toilet and elevator). Cloth is Harrison’s hounds tooth worsted flannel.





post #172 of 1050
Guys, interesting thread, but just so you know, dont pick an argument with bboyswhatcamacallit. He is royally anal and has an infantile pride in his fondness for arguments. It will go on and on unless he has the last word. He has good form on other SF threads and also the Kerbau forum.

One royally "classy" mofo.
post #173 of 1050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petepan View Post

Guys, interesting thread, but just so you know, dont pick an argument with bboyswhatcamacallit. He is royally anal and has an infantile pride in his fondness for arguments. It will go on and on unless he has the last word. He has good form on other SF threads and also the Kerbau forum.

One royally "classy" mofo.

 

Can you stop shitting up the thread when it's back on topic?

post #174 of 1050
Sure, just wanted to give a quick heads up to avoid further derails. You can kindly do the same instead of posting redundant shit.
post #175 of 1050
Gentlemen,

Just to set the record straight:

The article that started this thread derail is completely out of date, written at a time when Camps de Luca were contemplating doing something in Asia, thanks to an opportunity with a local partner, but nothing ever came of it.

Today, in Asia, the son named Charles de Luca travels regularly to Beijing, Hong Kong, and Singapore, to visit clients and to do trunk shows. That's it. The only official location is the Paris showroom.
post #176 of 1050
Great thread.
post #177 of 1050
Quote:
Originally Posted by fassbinder View Post

Really tired of the KL discussion. Let’s try not to ruin a good thread with ridiculous back and forth arguments. I will try to get this thread back on topic. Here are some pics of a Di Fiore suit I am wearing today. I apologize in advance for the crappy iphone photos taken in favorite igent spots (toilet and elevator). Cloth is Harrison’s hounds tooth worsted flannel.






I like the jacket, quite clean, now a question for you guys. How do you think the French cut will look on shorter guys. All the ones I have seen so far has quite a bit flare in the skirt, I like it, but given my height I would think it would make me look short. My logic is for you to create that flare in the skirt you need length to extend it out otherwise a short skirt flaring out looks ridiculous.
post #178 of 1050
Actually the jacket skirt is only slightly flared. The more exaggerated flare in the second photo is do to my crappy photo angle and for whatever reason I was holding both my elbows up which also created a bit of a pull at the buttoning point (i'm also probably a bit fatter than when i had the coat made) . In a more normal standing position the flair is more similar to the third photo (unfortunately my jacket was not buttoned). I made a last minute decision to try steer the thread back on course, so the quality of the photos were really an afterthought.

Concerning your general question/statement. Certainly the Cifo jackets I have seen have a bit of a skirt flair, more so than Di Fiore. Whether or not they work with shorter people is not something I have ever considered. I'm sure if everything else is in proportion it would be fine. In general I think French jackets are a bit shorter than English jackets.
post #179 of 1050
Quote:
Originally Posted by clee1982 View Post

I like the jacket, quite clean, now a question for you guys. How do you think the French cut will look on shorter guys. All the ones I have seen so far has quite a bit flare in the skirt, I like it, but given my height I would think it would make me look short. My logic is for you to create that flare in the skirt you need length to extend it out otherwise a short skirt flaring out looks ridiculous.



Height does not matter so much as your body proportions. I realize shorter people tend to have proportions that might not be as flattering as taller people but you are dressing yourself, not a norm.
The French are not tall(and neither are Italians) so I would not worry about your height. If you are built like a bowling ball, that might be an issue.
I don't find any of the 'house' styles to be so extreme that someone with reasonable proportions would look like a fool in their suit.
Also, they know what they are doing and will do what is possible to make it come out well. Granted,I cannot see any decent tailor cutting a suit making anybody who is 160cm and 100kg look better than someone who is 190 and 90kg or hell, someone else who is 160cm and 50kg.
Also, I don't think the flaring is that extreme. Fassbinder's pics are crap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fassbinder View Post

Actually the jacket skirt is only slightly flared. The more exaggerated flare in the second photo is do to my crappy photo angle and for whatever reason I was holding both my elbows up which also created a bit of a pull at the buttoning point (i'm also probably a bit fatter than when i had the coat made) . In a more normal standing position the flair is more similar to the third photo (unfortunately my jacket was not buttoned). I made a last minute decision to try steer the thread back on course, so the quality of the photos were really an afterthought.

Thanks for rerailing the thread. And, yes, your pics are poor but the real problem is that they should have been in the toilet IN the elevator.
This is SF, the bar is high.
post #180 of 1050
clee1982 -- Seamaster Lux is size US34, not tall, and his French bespoke suits all look great as you can see on www.paul-lux.tumblr.com

Fassbinder -- Thanks for getting the thread back on track. I have some questions re Di Fiore, which is at the top of my list of tailors to try next (I'm from the breed of #menswear geeks who tries everybody once, unlike some of my buddies who stay true to one house for a lifetime):

1) How long ago did you have the suit made, and how much did it cost?
2) What other experience do you have with French tailors? Could you make some comparisons? I'm interested in knowing where Di Fiore sits on construction -- I understand he is more of the Italian school of lighter & supple construction.
3) How did you learn of Di Fiore and what drew you to him?
4) How would you rate the overall customer experience there?

Thanks.
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