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Making a Car Dealership an Offer - Page 3

post #31 of 45
The owner/user reviews on that generation Nissan Sentra are FAR from good....just read them on Edmunds.

http://www.edmunds.com/nissan/sentra/2006/consumer-reviews.html?style=100624781&sorting=CREATION_DATE
Edited by whiteslashasian - 4/12/13 at 9:13am
post #32 of 45
Good job on doing the price model as suggested.

DO NOT be afraid to low ball. It is not being a douche it is looking out for your best interests. Remember you can always come up in your offer but it's pretty hard to go down from your original offer. This is not about being a good guy this is about driving the best deal you can.
post #33 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteslashasian View Post

The owner/user reviews on that generation Nissan Sentra are FAR from good....just read them on Edmunds.

http://www.edmunds.com/nissan/sentra/2006/consumer-reviews.html?style=100624781&sorting=CREATION_DATE

+100
If you are looking to buy a car that is 7+ years old look at Toyota , Honda, Chevy Prizm(Toy.Corolla), Subaru, or buy Volvo 240 for a few thousand bucks and save the rest for something better, like bespoke shoes.
Do it via private sale, else pay $1500 to $2500 of marked up price for repainted bumpers and shampooed interior, which dealer spent 150 dollars on.
post #34 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteslashasian View Post

The owner/user reviews on that generation Nissan Sentra are FAR from good....just read them on Edmunds.

http://www.edmunds.com/nissan/sentra/2006/consumer-reviews.html?style=100624781&sorting=CREATION_DATE

Thank you for posting this. I almost bought the car. You probably saved me a little bit of money in the long run.
post #35 of 45
Thread Starter 
I've been hearing the term 'certified rebuild status' from a few people I've responded to. Can this happen with any accident even if it is small? I'm looking at a 2004 Acura EL (150k km @ $7300) and a 2004 Civic (140k km @ $5000). Both are certified rebuilds. The seller of the Acura sent me pictures of the car after the accident. He got hit on the side; wheel was bent a bit but otherwise nothing major. The seller of the Honda doesn't have any pictures but tells me that the frame was compromised. Do any of these issues have a significant effect on their respective vehicles? Keep in mind that I want to be able to resell anything I buy in 5-10 years.
post #36 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjamesuvic View Post

I've been hearing the term 'certified rebuild status' from a few people I've responded to. Can this happen with any accident even if it is small? I'm looking at a 2004 Acura EL (150k km @ $7300) and a 2004 Civic (140k km @ $5000). Both are certified rebuilds. The seller of the Acura sent me pictures of the car after the accident. He got hit on the side; wheel was bent a bit but otherwise nothing major. The seller of the Honda doesn't have any pictures but tells me that the frame was compromised. Do any of these issues have a significant effect on their respective vehicles? Keep in mind that I want to be able to resell anything I buy in 5-10 years.

You're looking at cars that are 10 years old (04s come out in 03) and are worried about resale value five to ten years down the road? One of them you're paying 5k for now? Seriously, not a big concern.
post #37 of 45
NEVER BUY A REBUILD. NEVER. NEVER. NEVER. NEVER. NEVER. NEVER. NEVER.
post #38 of 45
lol @ "certified rebuild". so it's been totaled and fixed, with frame damage on one of them. the only thing that i would wonder about is how fast you can click the "delete" button on the seller's email. it's not like it would be all that hard to find other Civics for sale out there
post #39 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRoi View Post

lol @ "certified rebuild". so it's been totaled and fixed, with frame damage on one of them. the only thing that i would wonder about is how fast you can click the "delete" button on the seller's email. it's not like it would be all that hard to find other Civics for sale out there

From what I've been reading online it's quite easy for a car to be a certified rebuild. Even getting rear ended and having the bumper replaced for a little crack can be considered a rebuild.
post #40 of 45
^^ is this a Canadian thing? Never heard of such a thing, and who certifies it?
post #41 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjamesuvic View Post

From what I've been reading online it's quite easy for a car to be a certified rebuild. Even getting rear ended and having the bumper replaced for a little crack can be considered a rebuild.
something like a fender or bumper replacement is not really a show stopper, I agree. I was reacting more to the one with frame damage. I'd never touch a car that I knew had that

the problem with this "certified" thing is who certifies it? to what standard is it certified? are there any express warranties as to the quality of that repair? if those aren't clear then all it sounds like is that a body shop fixed it and nothing more
post #42 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

^^ is this a Canadian thing? Never heard of such a thing, and who certifies it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HRoi View Post

something like a fender or bumper replacement is not really a show stopper, I agree. I was reacting more to the one with frame damage. I'd never touch a car that I knew had that

the problem with this "certified" thing is who certifies it? to what standard is it certified? are there any express warranties as to the quality of that repair? if those aren't clear then all it sounds like is that a body shop fixed it and nothing more

I think it is just a Canadian thing. I believe that a 'certified' rebuild is one that is done by an ICBC accredited mechanic. FYI, ICBC is a crown corporation that all vehicles in British Columbia must be insured through. At least to my knowledge.
post #43 of 45
Like I said before, a good used car and a crummy one don't have much of a difference in price. Why you'd consider buying one that was in a flood or was made from the good halves of two wrecked cars welded together is beyond me.
post #44 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cary Grant View Post

Huge? No.

Relatively more? Yes... at least on lower priced new cars... I asked and my sales person showed me the record of what they gave om the trade in I bought. Their profit was not "huge".



The number which a dealership "gives" for a trade in is not a meaningful figure. That is only one of several variables in the deal. Dealers will say 'I showed him $xxxx on his trade". The real value that the dealer is assigning to the car is almost always different.

There are many more variables possible but I will make it simple with two examples. Buyers A and B have identical, lien-free trade in vehicles. They both want to buy identically equipped Excello 450 SE's from the Excello dealer:

New car buyer A is hung up on his trade in being worth $10,000. It has a wholesale value to the dealer of about $9000. He wants to buy a $30,000 MSRP car. The dealer gives him his $10,000 trade in value and sells him the car for $30,000. The dealer grosses $29,000 on this deal, a trade in with a value of $9000 plus $20000 in cash.

New car buyer B comes in with an identical car to trade in. This guy has no idea what his trade in is worth but he fancies himself to be a negotiator and wants to hammer the dealer on the price of the new car. He does it. He gets them all the way down to $25000 on the car he is buying and they agree to give him $5000 for his trade. So he signs over the title to his car, gives them another $20000 in cash and has his new car. The dealer grosses $29,000 on this deal, a trade in with a value of $9000 plus $20000 in cash.

Those two deals are identical for the dealer and for both new car buyers. One buyer was shown $10000 for his trade. The second buyer was shown $5000 for his trade. Both are probably bragging about how they played hardball with the dealer.



Now the two identical trades go onto the used car side of the dealer's lot. You come in and give them $10000 cash for trade in A. They show you that they actually paid $10000 for that car. So you are getting it at dealer cost. You negotiated them all the way down to dealer cost. That is a great deal, right? In reality, they made $1000 on that car.

I walk onto the lot and want to buy trade in B. We go around and around. I end up paying $10000 cash for trade in B. They killed me, making a 100% profit, right? No. In reality, they made $1000 on that car.

These two deals are identical for the dealer and both used car buyers. We paid the same price for identical cars. You paid dealer cost, according to the record of what they paid for it. I paid double dealer cost, according to the record of what they paid for it.

So how meaningful is "dealer cost" when you are buying a used car?




And this is a simple example. There are several more moving parts in most transactions at a new car dealer.
post #45 of 45
If you have a trade in be a prick. Negotiate the price of the new car and lie right through your teeth when they ask you if you have a trade in. Tell them you do not. Then when you get your best deal tell them, "Oh, I just decided I will trade in. How much for my car can you give me?" They will hate you but this will give you the best chance for a great deal.
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