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Japanese Shoes: Bespoke & RTW Super Thread - Page 248

post #3706 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by j ingevaldsson View Post


Actually again, for a blind welt you hide the welt and the stitches by leaving more of the outsole at the edge and then pull it over the welt covering it completely. You can see it in this post, Meccariello does the common thing and then Hiro Yanagimachi does a blind welt at the waist: http://shoegazing.se/english/2015/11/04/competition-winners-and-answers-of-find-the-difference/
Back in the days when you referred to a bevelled waist, it was a one with a blind welt, nowadays it's just the rounded shape.

fing02[1].gif

Loved that link! Should be required reading along with the first half a dozen pages in the SF Shoemaking Techniques and Traditions...These Foolish Things thread. cool.gif
post #3707 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishball View Post

Finally, I got my shoes from the best shoemaker in Hong Kong, Mr. Masaru Okuyama!

This is a very special project, which is neither "fully bespoke," nor MTO.
A pair of whole cut single monk made on my own last with sterling silver buckle, handwelted, machine sewn out sole.





Photo Credit: Marlow So & Masaru Okuyama

From what I see, I think Mr. Okuyama MTO is one of the best value in the market.
I have few pairs of G&G MTO, I will say Okuyama San shoes are much better than G&G Deco in leather quality, construction, and finishing at almost same price range. The only downside is you have to wait longer facepalm.gif

Thanks Masaru!

OMG!!! It's absolutely beautiful:bounce2:nice work Mr.O!

I'm really looking forward to receiving my pair!

Fishball,I hope I'll have a chance to appreciate this shoes haha

Also,what's the meaning of neither"bespoke" nor "MTO"??

post #3708 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ltin View Post

OMG!!! It's absolutely beautiful:bounce2: nice work Mr.O!
I'm really looking forward to receiving my pair!
Fishball,I hope I'll have a chance to appreciate this shoes haha
Also,what's the meaning of neither"bespoke" nor "MTO"??
Not bespoke in the sense that the last is my own last, although that last is be spoken by me, and also the outsole is not stitching by hands, therefore I don't classified it fully "bespoke"
However, it is not standard MTO either, because I can choose whatever style and details and this is my own last. MTO also don't have that lovely shoe tree smile.gif
MTO come with 3pcs tree
post #3709 of 4059
Will there be any Japanese shoemakers visiting San Francisco this year?
post #3710 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


fing02[1].gif

Loved that link! Should be required reading along with the first half a dozen pages in the SF Shoemaking Techniques and Traditions...These Foolish Things thread. cool.gif

 

:fonz:

Hehe saw that I used a pic from you in the blog post, of the stitch prick tools :) 

post #3711 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by j ingevaldsson View Post

fing02%5B1%5D.gif
Hehe saw that I used a pic from you in the blog post, of the stitch prick tools smile.gif  

Yes, I did. Thank you and thank you for crediting me.
post #3712 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by j ingevaldsson View Post


Actually again, for a blind welt you hide the welt and the stitches by leaving more of the outsole at the edge and then pull it over the welt covering it completely. You can see it in this post, Meccariello does the common thing and then Hiro Yanagimachi does a blind welt at the waist: http://shoegazing.se/english/2015/11/04/competition-winners-and-answers-of-find-the-difference/
Back in the days when you referred to a bevelled waist, it was a one with a blind welt, nowadays it's just the rounded shape.

No. For blind welt you have to set the holdfast further inside so the welt can be situated underneath the insole instead of sticking out. The outsole stitching is done much differently under the blind welt than regular welt. Mrsan calls it German welt while a German shoemaker calls it blind welt. There're pictures at CarreDucker's blog as well for your reference, tho they have very little experiences in making in this method.

It is really apparent when you observe from the location insole dimples. What's your Instagram handle? I can tag you some pictures for illustration. Blind welt has to be done by setting holdfast further towards the center.

There are of course the simplified imitation where makers place outsole stitching a on welt closer towards the upper and then hammer the outsole edge towards the upper to hide the stitching. Bemer hand welted RTW and most high end GYW do this.
Edited by chogall - 3/20/16 at 1:48pm
post #3713 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post


No. For blind welt you have to set the holdfast further inside so the welt can be situated underneath the insole instead of sticking out. The outsole stitching is done much differently under the blind welt than regular welt. Mrsan calls it German welt while a German shoemaker calls it blind welt. There're pictures at CarreDucker's blog as well for your reference, tho they have very little experiences in making in this method.

It is really apparent when you observe from the location insole dimples. What's your Instagram handle? I can tag you some pictures for illustration. Blind welt has to be done by setting holdfast further towards the center.

There are of course the simplified imitation where makers place outsole stitching a on welt closer towards the upper and then hammer the outsole edge towards the upper to hide the stitching. Bemer hand welted RTW and most high end GYW do this.

 

I'm not sure if we mean the same thing just say it differently. But yes you usually put the holdfast further in when doing a blind welt, but I wouldn't focus on that or say that the insole hides the welt. It's the outsole that hides it when it's bent over the welt and sole stitch and goes against the upper, that's the key feature. And like on the Meccariello shoes in the article or Bemer and other high end RTW you mention, for that solution you often place the holdfast further in at the waist as well.

My Instagram name is written in the signature below.

post #3714 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by j ingevaldsson View Post

I'm not sure if we mean the same thing just say it differently. But yes you usually put the holdfast further in when doing a blind welt, but I wouldn't focus on that or say that the insole hides the welt. It's the outsole that hides it when it's bent over the welt and sole stitch and goes against the upper, that's the key feature. And like on the Meccariello shoes in the article or Bemer and other high end RTW you mention, for that solution you often place the holdfast further in at the waist as well.
My Instagram name is written in the signature below.

It's bending the outsoles is a minor feature and done by everyone. You are making it sound like blind welt stitching is the same as regular welt stitching where in reality it's much harder to execute.

Can't view ur signature in mobile version.
post #3715 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

It's bending the outsoles is a minor feature and done by everyone. You are making it sound like blind welt stitching is the same as regular welt stitching where in reality it's much harder to execute.

Can't view ur signature in mobile version.

I'm not sure what you mean with bending the outsoles, but covering the entire welt and sole stitch with the outsole is not made by everyone. And I didn't say that it wasn't a much more complicated process than regular welt stitching and said I went through the whole process, I was pointing to what I see as the key feauture.
post #3716 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by j ingevaldsson View Post

I'm not sure what you mean with bending the outsoles, but covering the entire welt and sole stitch with the outsole is not made by everyone. And I didn't say that it wasn't a much more complicated process than regular welt stitching and said I went through the whole process, I was pointing to what I see as the key feauture.
Something might be lost in translation or communication.

Just tagged you in 4 Instagram photos that easily illustrates my point. Much better representation than your blog post as well.

I'll dig around for failed blind welt attempt/imitation by some hand welted shoemakers. Should have some pictures at home.
post #3717 of 4059
Haha, I just know that is too technical for a "normal " customer. So I don't know is Mr Okuyama new MTO classified as real blind welt or imitation blind welt in professional terms, ( since within the professionals, different people said different things) anyway, they look lovely. smile.gif
post #3718 of 4059
Btw, my Okuyama's shoes are not gemming and used Baker insole, so I hope it can pass the standard of DW wink.gif
post #3719 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishball View Post

Btw, my Okuyama's shoes are not gemming and used Baker insole, so I hope it can pass the standard of DW wink.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishball View Post

Haha, I just know that is too technical for a "normal " customer. So I don't know is Mr Okuyama new MTO classified as real blind welt or imitation blind welt in professional terms, ( since within the professionals, different people said different things) anyway, they look lovely. smile.gif

 

Does Mr Okuyama also carve the insole up the arch for his MTO shoes similar to his bespoke shoes?

post #3720 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by j ingevaldsson View Post


I'm not sure what you mean with bending the outsoles, but covering the entire welt and sole stitch with the outsole is not made by everyone. And I didn't say that it wasn't a much more complicated process than regular welt stitching and said I went through the whole process, I was pointing to what I see as the key feauture.

 

Tagged you two more pictures on Instagram.  One is a regular welt with outsole trimmed and knocked up at the waist to appear blind welt.  The other is a bad execution of blind welt, where the holdfast was probably not moved in with a lot of the welt hanging outside and those excess were not trimmed or knocked up to the waist.

 

Pictures is worth 1000 words. :)

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