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Japanese Shoes: Bespoke & RTW Super Thread - Page 230

post #3436 of 4059
Thread Starter 
Here are more of our store`s bespoke J-shoes for your eyes

MAIN D`OR by Eiji Murata
Adelaide Oxfords
Brown Baby Calf

A lovely pair of shoes by Eiji Murata. Hard to get hold of (bespoke shoemaking is not his primary job), and takes a long time to complete (close to 2 years for these), the result was nonetheless spectacular. Though I keep these in stores as display samples, they are indeed made for my feet. I selected Japanese baby calf (by definition much younger than European standard baby calf) for its great luster. Baby calf however is prone to creases.

Hollowed Shoetrees by Ide Yosuke.

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post #3437 of 4059
Thread Starter 
Below are some of the pictures I took when I received my MAIN D`OR pair (the same one above) a while ago at Murata-san`s atelier

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Brown baby calf (looks darker under a cloudy day). Baby calf was a nightmare to work with, according to Murata-san. Coupled with English style hollowed trees

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After 2 trial shoes (the second one with 1 month trial time), the fitting is damn near perfect!

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Murata-san checking the fit


Looking good!


The lasts are being marked immediately. The second pair (a black derby) should fit even better! (still waiting after 18 months)

Murata-san is legendary among fellow Japanese shoemakers for his obsessive attention to making and finish. Here are some closeup pics of the Making

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and some more from other Bespoke pairs that I acquired from him.

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Crazy Bevelled Waist finish

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Not meant for walking, but lovely. Murata-san gave it a mirror gloss inspired by Japanese lacquer


Here are other pics I snapped from his shoes in the making




Sole Stitching!


Sole Stitching! I believe this one is even tighter than the one above


Sole Stitching!
Edited by nutcracker - 11/4/15 at 8:48am
post #3438 of 4059

DWFII: Yes you might be correct on that some of it had to do with lack of knowledge when it comes to health etc, I wouldn't know.

 

When it comes to good comfort my experience is that the old saying "a pencil under the toe, a penny under the heel" (or something like that) is quite perfect, at least the toe part, when also taking into account the looks.

 

 

Nutcracker: He's not doing shoes full time? Didn't know that, quite impressing to have reached that level on something done on the side (or has he worked full time with it before?). What does he have for a regular job?

He do have a thing for finishing right, almost to the extent that you can't see the actual work because of all the shine :) But looks nice, and even if I don't personally am all for the build up on top of the heels it's some nice workmanship, and the sole stitching of course looks very well too. 

post #3439 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by j ingevaldsson View Post

DWFII:

When it comes to good comfort my experience is that the old saying "a pencil under the toe, a penny under the heel" (or something like that) is quite perfect, at least the toe part, when also taking into account the looks.. 
Let me just ask you one thing...just to give you something to think about...where "under the toe?"

Under the toe of the foot? Or under the toe of the shoe? At the forward end of the toe stiffener? Or under the toe at the outside edge of the welt? Under the toe of a Traditionally sized last or under the toe of an extended toed last?

--
Edited by DWFII - 11/4/15 at 11:18am
post #3440 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Let me just ask you one thing...just to give you something to think about...where "under the toe?"

Under the toe of the foot? Or under the toe of the shoe? At the forward end of the toe stiffener? Or under the toe at the outside edge of the welt? Under the toe of a Traditionally sized last or under the toe of an extended toed last?

--
It looks like at least one of these makers would say "none of the above," which does tell you something.
post #3441 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


Let me just ask you one thing...just to give you something to think about...where "under the toe?"

Under the toe of the foot? Or under the toe of the shoe? At the forward end of the toe stiffener? Or under the toe at the outside edge of the welt? Under the toe of a Traditionally sized last or under the toe of an extended toed last?

--

 

Where you regularly measure the toe spring, at the bottom of the tip of the sole.

post #3442 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by j ingevaldsson View Post

Where you regularly measure the toe spring, at the bottom of the tip of the sole.

That's fine ...it's a "quick and dirty" reckoning. Like measuring the heel height at the back of the heel (although that's even more problematic).

But toe spring is really only pertinent or germane when talking about lasts. So the true toe spring has to be measured just slightly short of where the toe stiffener ends.
post #3443 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


That's fine ...it's a "quick and dirty" reckoning. Like measuring the heel height at the back of the heel (although that's even more problematic).

But toe spring is really only pertinent or germane when talking about lasts. So the true toe spring has to be measured just slightly short of where the toe stiffener ends.

 

But in what way does it matter if you measure at the bottom of the tip of the sole or just sligthly short of where the toe stiffener ends? As long as you compare the same thing between different shoes. And the part you describe is for example not the part where the shoe will leave the ground or what you will see when you look at it esthetically, and the last will never be something without the shoe, so I can't really understand why the way you describe should be more correct. Please explain.

post #3444 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by j ingevaldsson View Post

But in what way does it matter if you measure at the bottom of the tip of the sole or just sligthly short of where the toe stiffener ends? As long as you compare the same thing between different shoes. And the part you describe is for example not the part where the shoe will leave the ground or what you will see when you look at it esthetically, and the last will never be something without the shoe, so I can't really understand why the way you describe should be more correct. Please explain.

It probably doesn't make any difference...anymore than comparing heel heights by measuring at the back of the heel of the shoe. It's all relative.

But makers don't deal in "relative". For me a "pencil under the toe and a penny under the heel" is bogus esp. without a point of reference or a standard...just as a pencil behind the heel is bogus.

Where's that penny going to go, for instance? Under the breast or under the back? Even being bogus, those are two very different situations.

And FWIW, I wasn't criticizing you, you know know...

But that said IMO, you have it just backward when you say "the last will never be something without the shoe." And that keeps prompting me to direct your attention in another direction.
post #3445 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

When the treadline of the shoe does not correspond to the treadline/joint of the foot, it is a slow disaster in the making. And, as a general principle, poor practices.

No toe-sprig whatsoever and on the right boot the treadline doesn't even seem to touch the ground.


John%20Nelson%20Hefford%201851_zpsnmww84ru.jpg

John Nelson Hefford (1851)
post #3446 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post

No toe-sprig whatsoever and on the right boot the treadline doesn't even seem to touch the ground.

John Nelson Hefford (1851)

Yes, many were like that. As I and others have said, I think it reflected a lack of understanding of the foot and the bio-mechanics of the foot, as well as a certain indifference...as is demonstrably the case in almost all exhibition work...with needing to actually wear the shoes.

Of course, if you're not an actual shoemaker, concerned with real feet, they probably look fine.
post #3447 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


It probably doesn't make any difference...anymore than comparing heel heights by measuring at the back of the heel of the shoe. It's all relative.

But makers don't deal in "relative". For me a "pencil under the toe and a penny under the heel" is bogus esp. without a point of reference or a standard...just as a pencil behind the heel is bogus.

Where's that penny going to go, for instance? Under the breast or under the back? Even being bogus, those are two very different situations.

And FWIW, I wasn't criticizing you, you know know...

But that said IMO, you have it just backward when you say "the last will never be something without the shoe." And that keeps prompting me to direct your attention in another direction.

 

Nah I didn't think you were criticizing me, no worries. I would say that the heel is a different thing, the external heel height (when you measure from bottom to top at the back of the built up heel) isn't the actual, practical heel height, it would be from the back of the insole to the ground. But the actual, practical toe spring would be the tip of the bottom of the sole.

 

The "pencil under the toe, penny under the heel" was just to examplify with an old saying, don't put too much into that.

 

IMO, I do think you can say that the last will never be anything without the shoe, as well as you can say that the shoe wouldn't be anything without the last. But it's all in how you interpret it.

post #3448 of 4059
Quote:
Originally Posted by j ingevaldsson View Post

Nah I didn't think you were criticizing me, no worries. I would say that the heel is a different thing, the external heel height (when you measure from bottom to top at the back of the built up heel) isn't the actual, practical heel height, it would be from the back of the insole to the ground. But the actual, practical toe spring would be the tip of the bottom of the sole.

Actually, heel height is always measured under where the malleoli would be on the foot--roughly 1/4 SLL from the back of the last; or, quick and dirty, at the breast of the heel. Never at the back of the shoe or last.

This is lastmaker's canon...as is "toe spring"...and it has informed shoemakers for as long as the two Trades have been allied.
Quote:
IMO, I do think you can say that the last will never be anything without the shoe, as well as you can say that the shoe wouldn't be anything without the last. But it's all in how you interpret it.

No biggie, but IMO, the last will always be a last--full of potential; the shoe is just a leather foot bag without the last...without form or even function.

The only thing in all of this that really takes it to the level of interesting is the simple fact that when language is used incorrectly...and, more importantly, indiscriminately...confusion results and nothing is understood. Truth, such as it is, is obscured or lost.

The example of the shoe above is a good example. People see this kind of thing and, perhaps like yourself, think it is not only acceptable but desirable. How many people looking at the photo of the shoe above think to themselves "Wow! How sleek! How streamlined! How tasty and expeditious! I want a pair just like that." And before you know it, questionable shoemaking practices such as zero toe spring, weight forward of the treadline, sprung heels, and heel raised above what the last was designed for, become the gold standard.

Or at least a meme of the fashion obsessed.

edited for punctuation and clarity
Edited by DWFII - 11/5/15 at 7:42am
post #3449 of 4059
Thread Starter 
More pics of MAIN D`OR Samples we have on display

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MAIN D`OR
Diamond Cap Adelaide Oxford
Blue Calf

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MAIN D`OR
Full Brogue Oxford
Black Calf w/ burgundy stitches

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Some details of the upper




MAIN D`OR
Quarter Brogue Oxfords
Brown Calf

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post #3450 of 4059
Okay, I have a question: if shoemaking is a part-time thing for Murata-san, why does he use so much time to reach this level of perfection?
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