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Japanese Shoes: Bespoke & RTW Super Thread - Page 182

post #2716 of 2870
fing02[1].gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by nutcracker View Post


Understood. Makes a lot of sense. Thanks DW, B-S.
post #2717 of 2870
As a kind of shoemaker myself I think there are meny things to consider when one calculates the time to make a shoe.
In my work at GG there is a big difference on the time spent on a first pair of shoes for a customer than for a repeat or of a shoe of a simular style as a client has had before.
If for example I know that a customer has had oxford style shoes before and he is ordering another pair with minor alterations to the pattern but with no Alterations to the last he is happy with I am sure 40-50 hours would be enough to make a fine pair of shoes.
If on the other hand the client is coming for the first time and having lasts made. Fitted and doing alterations to last and patterns and maybe even do a second fitting before the final shoe is produced it is not unusual to spend alot more time on "one" pair of shoes..maybe even two or three times as much.
Perhaps this is sometimes the result of being young in the trade but this is often the case I am sure for alot of the makers in Japan. What you lack in experience you have to make up for in hard work and from what I´ve seen good work ethics meny times win over experience.


Daniel W
post #2718 of 2870
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metroboy View Post

If for example I know that a customer has had oxford style shoes before and he is ordering another pair with minor alterations to the pattern but with no Alterations to the last he is happy with I am sure 40-50 hours would be enough to make a fine pair of shoes.
If on the other hand the client is coming for the first time and having lasts made. Fitted and doing alterations to last and patterns and maybe even do a second fitting before the final shoe is produced it is not unusual to spend alot more time on "one" pair of shoes..maybe even two or three times as much.
Perhaps this is sometimes the result of being young in the trade but this is often the case I am sure for alot of the makers in Japan. What you lack in experience you have to make up for in hard work and from what I´ve seen good work ethics meny times win over experience.


Daniel W

Post is very good.
post #2719 of 2870
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post

Leaving all statements for the consumption of prospective clients out of the equation, I would say that is the actual time spent on making a pair of bespoke shoes. Important is that these figures refer to specialists who make nothing else than a particular step in production of bespoke shoes, have been doing it for many years and are highly experienced in their particular task.

Last making: 1 day.
A distinguished last maker (then in semi-retirement), told me that in his best days he could do 2 pairs of bespoke lasts a day. I mean, he reduced an oversized last down to the right size. He did not "fit-up" an existing last, nor did he cut the last from a block of wood.

Upper making: 1 - 1 1/2 days.
Making the "forme", drawing the "standard" and drawing the sectional patterns might take 2 hours, "Clicking" (cutting out) will take another hour. The time it takes to "close" (stitching together) depends very much on the design. Some designs are plain and can be done quickly, others with brogueing, hand-stitched aprons or designs that need "blocking" (pulling wet leather over a wooden board that, when dry, the leather has acquired the curve of the board) will take far more time.

Bottom making: 2 - 2 1/12 days.
Specialized "makers" will do the bottom work on 2 or 3 pairs a week. That will include finish (scraping, dying, polishing of the soles and welts) but they won't polish the uppers.

Final finish: 1/2 day.
Back in the firm's headquarters, the last gets removed, the uppers polished and a "sock" (insole liner) gets fitted).


All in all, a pair of bespoke shoes can be done in a week or 40 - 45 hours. Actually it will take longer and cannot be done in a calendar week as there a various drying times involved and all shoemaker (at a given point in time) will have more than one pair on the go.

I do not want to judge whether the shoemaker quoted spends actually 160 hours on a pair or s/he is exaggerating. While the average firm (with one man/woman working on the shoes at a given time) can turn out some 50 pairs a year, the other shoemaker can turn out only 12 or so pairs a year. That is an enormous difference which would need to be reflected in the price charged (but probably is not)..

me local bespoke maker take 45 hours to make shoe.
me english shoe maker say he take 90 hours to make first shoe.
me always think english maker tell story but now me think it could be true,
he do two fitting.
good post bengal stripe icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif
post #2720 of 2870
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metroboy View Post

As a kind of shoemaker myself I think there are meny things to consider when one calculates the time to make a shoe.
In my work at GG there is a big difference on the time spent on a first pair of shoes for a customer than for a repeat or of a shoe of a simular style as a client has had before.
If for example I know that a customer has had oxford style shoes before and he is ordering another pair with minor alterations to the pattern but with no Alterations to the last he is happy with I am sure 40-50 hours would be enough to make a fine pair of shoes.
If on the other hand the client is coming for the first time and having lasts made. Fitted and doing alterations to last and patterns and maybe even do a second fitting before the final shoe is produced it is not unusual to spend alot more time on "one" pair of shoes..maybe even two or three times as much.
Perhaps this is sometimes the result of being young in the trade but this is often the case I am sure for alot of the makers in Japan. What you lack in experience you have to make up for in hard work and from what I´ve seen good work ethics meny times win over experience.


Daniel W

Thanks for posting Daniel, and I totally agree what you said there on the end.

and Welcome to the thread! fing02[1].gif
post #2721 of 2870
Here is the time schedule of John Lobb Paris. Not sure whether Lobb looked over this though.
Quote:
http://www.iconofly.com/en/celebrates/boots/manufacturing.html

These unique boots require 70 hours of craftsmanship and more than 6 different production steps are involved in the process.

Taking the measurements and creating a last (4 – 5h)
Designing the patterns (2 – 3h)
Preparation and assembly of the pieces that make up the upper (15h)
Assembly of the upper, the sole and the heel (20h)
Creation of the boot tree (15 – 16 h)
Finishing touches … (1h)
post #2722 of 2870
link very good icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif
post #2723 of 2870
Thread Starter 
Talking about boots...

Here is a new bespoke sample: Field Boots by TYE Shoemaker



*



*

TYE Shoemaker blog
post #2724 of 2870
Field boots and broguing? What next -- fused collars and cemented soles?
post #2725 of 2870
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VRaivio View Post

Field boots and broguing? What next -- fused collars and cemented soles?

Hmmmm.... how bout some Chelsea Boots in Norwe stitching?






and some George Boots in Norwe (actually a bespoke pair for a lady, the above`s wife)






TYE Shoemaker blog
post #2726 of 2870
Quote:
Originally Posted by nutcracker View Post

Hmmmm.... how bout some Chelsea Boots in Norwe stitching?




Suede Japanese bespoke Norwegian-stitched Chelsea boots on my feet make my cipher complete.
post #2727 of 2870
Thread Starter 
Here it is. The mother of all menswear sale in Japan is starting tomorrow morning. Yes, I mean the Isetan MEN`S Clearance Sale! I know some of our members are going, just expect long lines in the Summer Heat!!



The entire list of brands on sale is available on their website (thankfully in English)
http://www.miguide.jp/cl/ise/shinjuku/index_eng.html#mens
post #2728 of 2870
Quote:
Originally Posted by nutcracker View Post

Here it is. The mother of all menswear sale in Japan is starting tomorrow morning. Yes, I mean the Isetan MEN`S Clearance Sale! I know some of our members are going, just expect long lines in the Summer Heat!!



The entire list of brands on sale is available on their website (thankfully in English)
http://www.miguide.jp/cl/ise/shinjuku/index_eng.html#mens

Oof, that Yohji Yamamoto. Wish I could be there!

post #2729 of 2870
Quote:
Originally Posted by nutcracker View Post

Here it is. The mother of all menswear sale in Japan is starting tomorrow morning. Yes, I mean the Isetan MEN`S Clearance Sale! I know some of our members are going, just expect long lines in the Summer Heat!!



The entire list of brands on sale is available on their website (thankfully in English)
http://www.miguide.jp/cl/ise/shinjuku/index_eng.html#mens

Darn, that's some fine brands on sale there.. How much discount is it usually on the Isetan sale?
post #2730 of 2870
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by j ingevaldsson View Post

Darn, that's some fine brands on sale there.. How much discount is it usually on the Isetan sale?

About 30% I think. I heard the selection of EG and C&J are quite good this time around.
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