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Why do people hate genetically modified food? - Page 2

post #16 of 74

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cary Grant View Post

Nice first post which is AN UTTER AND COMPLETE LOAD OF BOLLOCKS. You work for Monsanto?

Having governed a food co-operative for years, I know first hand this could not be further from the truth.

There ARE plenty of fear mongers among the radical fringe of food nuts certainly, but the industry behind torying to provide SUSTAINABLE and healthy and locally sourced foods are not waging a wacko campaign to drive up their prices.

I hadn't heard of a food Co-Op since the 70's until I started dating a lady that worked at one 3 years ago. She now lives with me and I've slowly been able to get her to open her mind. Most food Co-Ops are still very much in the hippie generation and strongly think along those lines. And everyone I have ever met that has worked in one HATES Monsanto. Which started and always comes back to the fact that they produce Roundup. But when you try to get a decent answer why that is bad basically it boils down to the fact that Monsanto is a large evil corporation in their eyes. No facts are even given from a scientific standpoint. Now that I live in the #1 Agriculture producing State in the US I have friends that buy Roundup by the 55 gal. drum.

 

There is still is no scientific evidence that organic food is healthier or better for you than non organic. 3 long term studies were just released in the last year proving that, even though were hoping to prove otherwise. Sort of goes back to the original and basic idea that to be organic it must contain carbon :-)

 

Can you or anyone else answer the OP question from a scientific standpoint with facts and evidence with valid statically studies?

post #17 of 74
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntsman View Post

No offense, but you are clearly not a scientist. "More precisely" might have been accurate.

No offense taken. Endorsement from the Internet worth nothing anyway, an actual degree worth a bit more.
post #18 of 74
Certified Organic has become as much a marketing label as not.

However, for the operations that choose to take the time to practice natural and organic procedures, there are a whole host of benefits in terms of impact on the workers' heath, the impact on the soil, and much more.


And yes, there are plenty of co-op and natural food employees who take a passionate and less than scientific approach to food additives, modification etc. Just don't broad-brush everybody.


The lasting value of co-ops is not to be found in the products they in terms of organic etc, all those values have been, for lack of a better word, co-opted by larger commercial vendors. In the 70's if you wanted organic milk, you went to the co-op. Now Walmart is the worlds leading retailer of organic. One can argue that the co-ops were the bleeding edge of driving change.

The lasting value is in the notion of communities investing in and owning where there food comes from. A far larger share of the economic impact stays right there in the community. I care much more about that than the products we sell. Example: our co-op now also sells some "standard" food items that you can find in any grocery (certain brands of canned food, cereals etc). Why? Because there was a demonstrated demographic need in the marketplace where we are to be able to support WIC consumers, so we chose to impact low income consumers in the market by providing a local option.

But that's a discussion for a different threak.
post #19 of 74
1. Tastes like shit.
2. Cannot be contained or controlled how it spreads and mutates other non GMO cultures.
3. No epidemiological studies available to ascertain the health impact on humans.
4. Contains and requires insecticides just like any other industrially produced culture.
5. Self governed, self controlled, self safety tested. Neither FDA nor US government has any idea what is in your food or cosmetic products.
6. Did I mention it taste like shit?
post #20 of 74
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medwed View Post

1. Tastes like shit.
2. Cannot be contained or controlled how it spreads and mutates other non GMO cultures.
3. No epidemiological studies available to ascertain the health impact on humans.
4. Contains and requires insecticides just like any other industrially produced culture.
5. Self governed, self controlled, self safety tested. Neither FDA nor US government has any idea what is in your food or cosmetic products.
6. Did I mention it taste like shit?

1. Subjective.
2. Same with everything else.
3. Same with everything else.
4. Same with everything else.
5. That's the government job.
6. Subjective
post #21 of 74
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cary Grant View Post

Certified Organic has become as much a marketing label as not.

However, for the operations that choose to take the time to practice natural and organic procedures, there are a whole host of benefits in terms of impact on the workers' heath, the impact on the soil, and much more.


And yes, there are plenty of co-op and natural food employees who take a passionate and less than scientific approach to food additives, modification etc. Just don't broad-brush everybody.


The lasting value of co-ops is not to be found in the products they in terms of organic etc, all those values have been, for lack of a better word, co-opted by larger commercial vendors. In the 70's if you wanted organic milk, you went to the co-op. Now Walmart is the worlds leading retailer of organic. One can argue that the co-ops were the bleeding edge of driving change.

The lasting value is in the notion of communities investing in and owning where there food comes from. A far larger share of the economic impact stays right there in the community. I care much more about that than the products we sell. Example: our co-op now also sells some "standard" food items that you can find in any grocery (certain brands of canned food, cereals etc). Why? Because there was a demonstrated demographic need in the marketplace where we are to be able to support WIC consumers, so we chose to impact low income consumers in the market by providing a local option.

But that's a discussion for a different threak.

I agree. For the record, as co-op member myself, I know that there are many reasons for co-op. In particular, I can make cheese out of my non-Pasteurized milk.
post #22 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by onix View Post

1. Subjective.
2. Same with everything else. You are dumb
3. Same with everything else. You are dumb
4. Same with everything else. You are dumb
5. That's the government job. You are wronng
6. Subjective
post #23 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by onix View Post

I agree. For the record, as co-op member myself, I know that there are many reasons for co-op. In particular, I can make cheese out of my non-Pasteurized milk.

Awesome! We cannot retail raw milk here.
post #24 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cary Grant View Post

Certified Organic has become as much a marketing label as not.

However, for the operations that choose to take the time to practice natural and organic procedures, there are a whole host of benefits in terms of impact on the workers' heath, the impact on the soil, and much more.

And yes, there are plenty of co-op and natural food employees who take a passionate and less than scientific approach to food additives, modification etc. Just don't broad-brush everybody.

The lasting value of co-ops is not to be found in the products they in terms of organic etc, all those values have been, for lack of a better word, co-opted by larger commercial vendors. In the 70's if you wanted organic milk, you went to the co-op. Now Walmart is the worlds leading retailer of organic. One can argue that the co-ops were the bleeding edge of driving change.

The lasting value is in the notion of communities investing in and owning where there food comes from. A far larger share of the economic impact stays right there in the community. I care much more about that than the products we sell. Example: our co-op now also sells some "standard" food items that you can find in any grocery (certain brands of canned food, cereals etc). Why? Because there was a demonstrated demographic need in the marketplace where we are to be able to support WIC consumers, so we chose to impact low income consumers in the market by providing a local option.

But that's a discussion for a different threak.

 

Yes. And no. And if I wanted milk in the 70's I just went down to the bulk tank and dipped it out. In fact it was one of my chores every 2 days. NY was second in dairy production only to Wi. until those happy cows in Ca. took over. smile.gif

 

We do not live in just a local community any more when it comes to food, damn I can't believe I just said that. But today the first ship of the season is headed to Duluth now that the ice is almost out and will be heading out soon with wheat. And many more will follow to deliver it all around the world. When the US government decided to subsidise corn for ethanol production they screwed corn prices up so bad that prices rose all around the world. Mexico City had riots because people couldn't afford to eat anymore. Because of GMO new crops have already been developed that can grow where they never could before increasing food production around the world. A new strain of corn was released last year that can grow in dry areas that it never could before including West of the Missouri River. I am not in favor of risking the health and well being of Americans to feed the rest of the world. I also believe we shouldn't ignore them either, but they should be paying us back too.

 

From a scientific standpoint it is no different from the selective breeding we have been doing all along. One of my neighbors is a PhD in Genetics and Chemistry and we have had several talks about it. Down to the molecular level. With my background I have a pretty good understanding of it. He is now a professor and gets bombarded by facility and students alike about it. If he was still in research he would have a bias, but he isn't. Then again most people have a bias of one type or another.

 

People fear what they don't know or understand. They also have a bias that influences them without facts or evidence. And often have knee jerk responses like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Medwed View Post

1. Tastes like shit.
2. Cannot be contained or controlled how it spreads and mutates other non GMO cultures.
3. No epidemiological studies available to ascertain the health impact on humans.
4. Contains and requires insecticides just like any other industrially produced culture.
5. Self governed, self controlled, self safety tested. Neither FDA nor US government has any idea what is in your food or cosmetic products.
6. Did I mention it taste like shit?

I could answer 2-5 but it would be a waste of time. As far as 1 and 6 I declare bullshit. You can not taste or tell the difference in a blind taste test so that isn't even a subjective response. It is a false one.

post #25 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cold Iron View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medwed View Post

1. Tastes like shit.
2. Cannot be contained or controlled how it spreads and mutates other non GMO cultures.
3. No epidemiological studies available to ascertain the health impact on humans.
4. Contains and requires insecticides just like any other industrially produced culture.
5. Self governed, self controlled, self safety tested. Neither FDA nor US government has any idea what is in your food or cosmetic products.
6. Did I mention it taste like shit?

As far as 1 and 6 I declare bullshit. You can not taste or tell the difference in a blind taste test so that isn't even a subjective response. It is a false one.

 

I just spent a week in Japan. I ate all manner of fruits and vegetables while there, and every specimen of every fruit or vegetable that I have had the equivalent in the U.S. blew its U.S. counterpart completely out of the water. This was, by me, completely unexpected. I never imagined that a strawberry could have so many dimensions, I never imagined that an apple could have such perfume, or that an orange could be so rich.

 

Clearly, the U.S. farming industry is prioritizing yield, longevity, resistance to drought and pests, availability, and other market values above quality. That is the legacy of breeding, GMO will probably only be worse because the system does not have what I care about at heart and can more easily get what it wants. I'm sure your retort will be that GMO can create cultivars with those properties as well as the flavors I desire. But that won't be what will happen; the primary essence of, say strawberry, will be isolated and amped up to eleven to make a hyper strawberry to appeal to the masses. The symphony that is the real flavor of strawberry will not be preserved -- this happens time and time again in the food industry. Vanillin is the classic example. It is so easy to flood the tastebuds with strong flavors that nuance is lost, and that's what I love. So I call bullshit on you. I could tell the strawberry below from any strawberry you can buy at a major grocery in the U.S. I could tell it by its perfume before I had even put it in my mouth.

 

 

*

 


 

This is the second strawberry I ate in Japan. I took a picture of it to remember it. I spent like five minutes eating the first one, it was so revelatory.


~ H

post #26 of 74
^^^^


I yearn for that strawberry.
post #27 of 74

As a wine guy, gome, I'm sure that you would enjoy and appreciate it. Go to Japan if ever you can.

 

This little piece of street food, a roasted yam, was also fabulous:

 

*

 

 

~ H
 

post #28 of 74

The "conventional" method of producing new varieties of commercial crops today frequently involves bombarding seeds with radiation to produce mutations.They then select and cross-breed the plants they like.  Even new "organic" varieties are developed this way. I really don't see how GMO is worse. 

post #29 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntsman View Post

I just spent a week in Japan. I ate all manner of fruits and vegetables while there, and every specimen of every fruit or vegetable that I have had the equivalent in the U.S. blew its U.S. counterpart completely out of the water. This was, by me, completely unexpected. I never imagined that a strawberry could have so many dimensions, I never imagined that an apple could have such perfume, or that an orange could be so rich.

 

Clearly, the U.S. farming industry is prioritizing yield, longevity, resistance to drought and pests, availability, and other market values above quality. That is the legacy of breeding, GMO will probably only be worse because the system does not have what I care about at heart and can more easily get what it wants. I'm sure your retort will be that GMO can create cultivars with those properties as well as the flavors I desire. But that won't be what will happen; the primary essence of, say strawberry, will be isolated and amped up to eleven to make a hyper strawberry to appeal to the masses. The symphony that is the real flavor of strawberry will not be preserved -- this happens time and time again in the food industry. Vanillin is the classic example. It is so easy to flood the tastebuds with strong flavors that nuance is lost, and that's what I love. So I call bullshit on you. I could tell the strawberry below from any strawberry you can buy at a major grocery in the U.S. I could tell it by its perfume before I had even put it in my mouth.

 

 

*

 


 

This is the second strawberry I ate in Japan. I took a picture of it to remember it. I spent like five minutes eating the first one, it was so revelatory.


~ H

You do realize that there are NO GMO Strawberries commercially grown anywhere in the world don't you? So you still have not done a side by side comparison. Funny that you should bring up the Strawberry because the anti GMO crowd always uses it and so many false emails have circulated the internet about it that Strawberry farms have had to start defending themselves and posting information on their websites to set the facts straight,such as this producer in Fl: http://www.wishfarms.com/genetically-modified-organisms-gmos-explained/

 

Maybe the reason it tasted so good to you is that Japan uses human waste as a fertilizer? I used to pull in there a lot from the mid 70's till 83 then spent the next 15 years in the Med, Gulf and North Atlantic. I personally never really cared for the food in Japan that much, produce or not. And have access to so many Strawberry farms where I live that I have not had a "bad" Strawberry in many years. And that applies to any place where I have lived in the US. Many large grocery store chains use imported strawberries and greenhouse grown when out of season. 

 

What Cary Grant said makes sense to me and I agree, one thing he did not mention is to eat local produce and in season, which I do. But Americans want everything all the time. 

post #30 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cold Iron View Post

You do realize that there are NO GMO Strawberries commercially grown anywhere in the world don't you? So you still have not done a side by side comparison. Funny that you should bring up the Strawberry because the anti GMO crowd always uses it and so many false emails have circulated the internet about it that Strawberry farms have had to start defending themselves and posting information on their websites to set the facts straight,such as this producer in Fl: http://www.wishfarms.com/genetically-modified-organisms-gmos-explained/

 

Maybe the reason it tasted so good to you is that Japan uses human waste as a fertilizer? I used to pull in there a lot from the mid 70's till 83 then spent the next 15 years in the Med, Gulf and North Atlantic. I personally never really cared for the food in Japan that much, produce or not. And have access to so many Strawberry farms where I live that I have not had a "bad" Strawberry in many years. And that applies to any place where I have lived in the US. Many large grocery store chains use imported strawberries and greenhouse grown when out of season. 

 

What Cary Grant said makes sense to me and I agree, one thing he did not mention is to eat local produce and in season, which I do. But Americans want everything all the time. 

 

Yes, I am aware that there are no GMO strawberries. There are not that many GMO fruits (one papaya, and some citrus at least I am aware of). I am not an anti-GMO crazy, however, so I was not aware that there is some viral thing about GMO strawberries. My contention is more that the farming industry does not have my desires at heart, therefore they are likely to prioritize their desires (profit) at the expense of mine, especially when they get a new toy that will make it oh so much easier. So while you are correct that I have not done a side-by-side GMO and not, my comparison was not intended to be -- it was intended to be product of U.S. industrial farming v. other. The strawberry is an example of that -- not that its a bad strawberry, just that it is a shadow of what it could be, c.f. the tomato controversy. I agree that wanting everything all the time is completely wrong, and also eat local and seasonally as much as possible.

 

I'm sorry you did not care much for Japanese food; cuisine is one thing, but I'm really unclear how anyone could not be stunned by the produce. Human waste? That was a traditional practice in much of Asia (probably everywhere at one time or another), and I really don't care all that much. But I don't think it is very prevalent in modern Japan.

 

~ H

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