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21 Shot dead at Virginia Tech - Page 4

post #46 of 458
Good point Arethusa. If you can't beat them, join them -
There is a video CNN keeps playing that a student shot of the police running around, you can clearly hear the gunman's shots going off. Maybe someone can ID a general type of weapon from the sound.

JB
post #47 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arethusa View Post
Why? Most people are bad shots, and the few that aren't tend to have very clear agendas and no interest in shooting indiscriminately.
I dunno, maybe I just don't have the same thought processes as people who pull guns out at school and start shooting people, but theoretically speaking, if one were to think about it, at any given time on a college campus, there are several places where 100 or more students are gathered in a room with at most two or three easily blocked exits. I dunno, I guess these people aren't exactly rational. (if that's the right word to use)
post #48 of 458
The surprising part, to me, is that he got away after the first shooting spree...
post #49 of 458
He supposedly chained the doors of the building so that the cops couldn't get in.

What I don't understand is how he managed to walk all the way across campus after the first shooting without being apprehended or at least spotted.
post #50 of 458
I agree with Tokyo. At SDSU, there are many times in the day where I imagine one bullet would hit at least 3 people. I wouldn't be surprised if a person with two handguns could injure 80+ people without reloading at all. It's not even a matter of being a good or a bad shot. Shoot one bullet into the line at Chipotle or Panda Express and I guarantee at least 3 people will be hit. Unless I'm overestimating the distance a bullet can travel, which is possible.
post #51 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryce330 View Post
He supposedly chained the doors of the building so that the cops couldn't get in.

What I don't understand is how he managed to walk all the way across campus after the first shooting without being apprehended or at least spotted.

I find it hard to believe that he was able to chain all the doors shut without anyone taking action. I mean, wouldn't that make some people suspicious...
post #52 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim View Post
I dunno, maybe I just don't have the same thought processes as people who pull guns out at school and start shooting people, but theoretically speaking, if one were to think about it, at any given time on a college campus, there are several places where 100 or more students are gathered in a room with at most two or three easily blocked exits. I dunno, I guess these people aren't exactly rational. (if that's the right word to use)
It may be comforting and it certainly is easy to think these people are "just crazy". Tends not to be the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian SD View Post
I agree with Tokyo. At SDSU, there are many times in the day where I imagine one bullet would hit at least 3 people. I wouldn't be surprised if a person with two handguns could injure 80+ people without reloading at all. It's not even a matter of being a good or a bad shot. Shoot one bullet into the line at Chipotle or Panda Express and I guarantee at least 3 people will be hit. Unless I'm overestimating the distance a bullet can travel, which is possible.
Brian, handgun rounds would be hard pressed to go through more than two bodies. It just doesn't work like that. Injuring 80 people with two handguns without reloading, even with a competent, calm shooter is just extremely optimistic. Weapons are deadly things, but they're not that deadly.
post #53 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian SD View Post
. Unless I'm overestimating the distance a bullet can travel, which is possible.

depends on weapon and ammo. if he had large calibre semi automatic handguns, and he was firing at close range, and he had invested in ammo, it is entirly possible that some of his rounds hit three people. but that isn't as commn as you may think.
post #54 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stazy View Post
I find it hard to believe that he was able to chain all the doors shut without anyone taking action. I mean, wouldn't that make some people suspicious...

but what would they do about it?
post #55 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryce330 View Post
He supposedly chained the doors of the building so that the cops couldn't get in. What I don't understand is how he managed to walk all the way across campus after the first shooting without being apprehended or at least spotted.
Well: 1) The campus has lots of wide open areas - hard to stop crossings. No one had any idea what his next move was going to be, so they would have to set up a barricade around a very large area very quickly for them to catch him immediately. He would only need a couple of minutes to get beyond any reasonably radius for a barricade - not so hard in general pandemonium. 2) It would not have been very easy to identify him, unless, by chance, someone who knew him, or at least some very specific information about him (e.g. "I saw the guy. He works at XYZ cafe.) I mean "An Asian guy in a hat" doesn't give police much to work on. And he could easily have gotten rid of one or more articles of clothing at any time. Edit: What is surprising is that the police didn't shut everything down immediately. i.e. completely lockdown. No movement by anyone for any reason. It's much harder to move around unnoticed when everyone is completely still.
post #56 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by globetrotter View Post
but what would they do about it?

Well, if the building was similar to those on my campus, exit out of one the doors that he wasn't chaining. If it's a large university building, there would be exists all over the place.

Then again, I don't really know the environment in which the shooting took place so I could be totally off base.
post #57 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post
Edit: What is surprising is that the police didn't shut everything down immediately. i.e. completely lockdown. No movement by anyone for any reason. It's much harder to move around unnoticed when everyone is completely still.


sorry - I would be completly blown off my feet if that happened.

I am guessing that there is nobody on the security staff of the university with any real combat or police expereince, except maybe the head of security, who may be a retired cop. and, of the cops on duty at 715 am in the city police, how many of them have any experience with this kind of thing?and, who was the highest ranking cop on duty at 7 am?

so, the security guys get word of "shooting" at the dorms - they go out to check, maybe they take their time as they are a little scared. they are hit with a scene that they can't imagine, it may even take them time to get on the phone to the police. they call 911 and describe a horror show. now the duty officer has to decide what to do about it, and he probrably doens't call the state troopers swat team until he gets a report back from the first viehicle on the scene - it may be an hour before anybody with any real capacity for this kind of thing gets to the site.
post #58 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stazy View Post
Well, if the building was similar to those on my campus, exit out of one the doors that he wasn't chaining. If it's a large university building, there would be exists all over the place.

Then again, I don't really know the environment in which the shooting took place so I could be totally off base.

but how many times does something out of the ordinary happen that is a prank or what not? do you really react every time?

a few weeks ago, I was at my sons hebrew school - it was a warmish day, and this arab woman, covered head to toe with a small opening for her eyes, wearing ahavy coat, is dropped off by a car in front of the school. she gets out of the car, with two heavy shoping bags, and starts to walk up to the school. i had my son lie down next to a heavy wall and away from the window, and I ran to tell the cop who guards the entrace that I thought she should check why this woman was here. she was sort of amused that I was concerned. it turns out the woman was part of a cross cultural activity. but, very frankly, she was way out of place, and could have been a threat. my instict was to blow her head off.

anyway, my point being, that we are not used to reacting with violence when soemthing threatening happens around us.
post #59 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by globetrotter View Post
but how many times does something out of the ordinary happen that is a prank or what not? do you really react every time?

a few weeks ago, I was at my sons hebrew school - it was a warmish day, and this arab woman, covered head to toe with a small opening for her eyes, wearing ahavy coat, is dropped off by a car in front of the school. she gets out of the car, with two heavy shoping bags, and starts to walk up to the school. i had my son lie down next to a heavy wall and away from the window, and I ran to tell the cop who guards the entrace that I thought she should check why this woman was here. she was sort of amused that I was concerned. it turns out the woman was part of a cross cultural activity. but, very frankly, she was way out of place, and could have been a threat. my instict was to blow her head off.

anyway, my point being, that we are not used to reacting with violence when soemthing threatening happens around us.

Imagine the media furor that would have ensued at the following of your trained instincts.
post #60 of 458
In my experience the vast majority of colleges have real police officers and not just campus security. I would be surprised if a campus with 26,000 students didn't have a real police force.
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