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21 Shot dead at Virginia Tech - Page 14

post #196 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiecollector View Post
Yes, another foreign exchange "student".

What does that have anything to do with anything?
post #197 of 458
Quote:
"Indeed, I would argue that if he did it for no reason at all - that is, if he had no "compulsion" but simply lacked all sense of morality - then that too would be evil."

Note that there's a distinct difference between the immoral and amoral. Not that I believe the gunman subscribed to any particular theory of ethics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buickguy View Post
This was clearly an initiation of force, deadly force.
We could go so far as to question how innocent any of the victims were in their personal lives as well as questioning the motivations of the shooter. This is a case where Randian philosophy serves very well. Were any of the killed or wounded threatening the shooter in any way? I would say no. Definitely not in a deadly way. This is clearly not a case of the use of defensive force. Defensive force is unequivocally moral. It is the only moral use of force open to the individual. That leaves retaliatory force and initiation of force. Retaliatory force is the purview of governments. When an individual is wronged, courts decide what retaliatory force is justified and the weight of the government is behind it. Governments may also retaliate against other governments in cases when nations are wronged.
The initiation of force is immoral, whether employed by an individual or a government.
Evil, in the shortest definition is committing immoral acts. Whether or not the shooter felt he was retaliating or he choose to initiate force, his act was immoral and therefore evil.

Objectivism is fraught with illogic. I hope you don't adhere to the Randian "philosophy."
post #198 of 458
Presumably all of you who insist this gunman was insane or a nutjob would have been happy for him to get off on an insanity plea had he survived. I somehow suspect not. This stuff happens too much in the USA. Not enough is done about it. It will go on until Americans get real about the Second Amendment and thoroughly re-evaluate what your gun ownership culture is doing to your society. So yes, at a certain level, these things are "society's fault", because you are doing nothing to prevent recurrences.
post #199 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dormouse View Post
Objectivism is fraught with illogic. I hope you don't adhere to the Randian "philosophy."


Not as a pure philosophy and surely not in its entirety but I have found that it can offer a beginning to the uninitiated.
post #200 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
Sorry, man, I hope everyone you know is safe. I wish everyone there were safe, but we already know it's not so.

+1
Words cannot express the sadness for those who have lost loved ones.
post #201 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by California Dreamer View Post
Presumably all of you who insist this gunman was insane or a nutjob would have been happy for him to get off on an insanity plea had he survived.

I somehow suspect not.

This stuff happens too much in the USA. Not enough is done about it. It will go on until Americans get real about the Second Amendment and thoroughly re-evaluate what your gun ownership culture is doing to your society. So yes, at a certain level, these things are "society's fault", because you are doing nothing to prevent recurrences.

Be careful...if the wind blows strong enough you might just blow yourself off that soapbox.
post #202 of 458
from vt.edu: "The individual has been identified as Cho Seung-Hui, 23. Cho was enrolled as an undergraduate student in his senior year as an English major at Virginia Tech. Cho, a South Korean native, was in the U.S. as a resident alien with a residence established in Centerville, Va."
post #203 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by amerikajinda View Post
from vt.edu:

"The individual has been identified as Cho Seung-Hui, 23. Cho was enrolled as an undergraduate student in his senior year as an English major at Virginia Tech. Cho, a South Korean native, was in the U.S. as a resident alien with a residence established in Centerville, Va."

Thats my hometown! Its actually spelled Centreville and is a suburb of Washington.
post #204 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by j View Post
Good, I was just going to ask you to stay out of this thread from now on.

Pwned!

Jon.
post #205 of 458
As a Virginian, especially, my heart bleeds for the young students who were executed and wounded, and those who witnessed the massacre, and those who now must live with the emotional scars for a lifetime.

It occurs to me that not since the Civil War, 150 years ago, has so much innocent life been brutally cut down on our soil.
post #206 of 458
How fucked up do you have to be to go Khmer Rouge on a bunch of kids?
post #207 of 458
Quote:
As a Virginian, especially, my heart bleeds for the young students who were executed and wounded, and those who witnessed the massacre, and those who now must live with the emotional scars for a lifetime.
+10. God watch over them.

JB
post #208 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by California Dreamer View Post
Presumably all of you who insist this gunman was insane or a nutjob would have been happy for him to get off on an insanity plea had he survived. I somehow suspect not. This stuff happens too much in the USA. Not enough is done about it. It will go on until Americans get real about the Second Amendment and thoroughly re-evaluate what your gun ownership culture is doing to your society. So yes, at a certain level, these things are "society's fault", because you are doing nothing to prevent recurrences.
1) This was the second college campus shooting in the US in 40 years. 2) As a South Korean Citizen, the shooter couldn't have owned the weapons under US law. Also, according to the AP article, "A source familiar with the investigation said the weapons found at Norris were a Walther .22-caliber semi-automatic and a 9 mm Glock -- both with the serial numbers filed off." which means the weapons were likely bought on the black market, illegally. 3) A similar situation happened last year in Canada, which doesn't allow gun ownership.
post #209 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chauncey Gardner View Post
As a Virginian, especially, my heart bleeds for the young students who were executed and wounded, and those who witnessed the massacre, and those who now must live with the emotional scars for a lifetime.

It occurs to me that not since the Civil War, 150 years ago, has so much innocent life been brutally cut down on our soil.

You might be forgetting this little incident that occurred on 9-11-2001.
post #210 of 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by redcaimen View Post
You might be forgetting this little incident that occurred on 9-11-2001.

I think he meant just Virginia.
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