The OneShirt: A Phoenix from the Ashes [4/24/13 UPDATE: A SHIRTMAKER, AN ENGLISHMAN, CHAMBRAY, AND F



Manton said:

FC will necessarily have a longer gauntlet opening than BC, which is why I think the former needs a button.

No gauntlet buttons on OCBDs.

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Interesting thought. For my own experience I find the french cuff tend to keep the gauntlet closer then a barrell cuff (both without and/or unbottoned). Incidently, most of the English and Italian shirt I have seen, have no gauntlet button for FC and button for BC.

I tend to wear 50/50 FC and Convertible single/barrell cuff. I work in a pretty conservative environment and no one notice me wearing single cuff with cufflinks, whilst I have received other remarks on other dressing aspects as more "Italian".

I like to have the options to wear the same shirt with cufflinks or without. For example, if I am planning to visit the gym over lunch break, as I will have to undress and re-dress again, I prefer leaving the cufflink at hime and convert the cuff to barrell passing the hiden button through the two buttonholes.. great

Incidently my only true barrell cuff was my Albini Chambray as I could not see myself wearing it with cufflink.

I think the way to approach Geneva is, get all your experiments and nitpicking out of the way as early as possible. They will work with you. But if every single order has some microscopic change, they will get annoyed.

As I have said, my earliest shirts from them turned out to be burners. Not unwearable by any means, but compared to the later versions, which are so much better, I found that I just didn't wear them, so I put them in the attic.

I did ask, long after I started, for a higher armhole. They said I wouldn't like it, it doesn't work the same way on shirts as on coats. I said do it anyway. They did and ... I didn't like it. I admitted my error and they reverted to the older pattern, which I have used ever since.

Oh and I spoke a little too soon re: fraying. A few of them are frayed at the corners where the double cuff folds over. But that's it. And VERY minor. My first order with them was 2005 and so far not a single shirt has given out.

Can I ask a noobish question?

What, exactly, is chambray in abstract terms? The stuff I've seen has been like a lightweight plain weave denim (workshirts) or a light blue slightly flecked plain weave (J. Press jackets). As far as I can figure out from research, it's an end-on-end that isn't dyed until after weaving -- usually with a rougher texture. Is that it?

Can I think of this as (pinpoint : oxford :: end-on-end : chambray), or is that way off?



Eustace Tilley said:

We went through three iterations for my BD. They're very nice guys, but have little patience for know-it-alls. Assuming you go in with the right attitude, I can't imagine why Eugene wouldn't be willing to work with you.

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Eugene has always been super-friendly with me. I just figured that as a workshop with a huge amount of business from larger retail operations, they would not be as interested in re-iterating a collar again and again. They're not set up like a devoted bespoke shirtmaker.

Do you happen to have any pics of your collar worn with a tie?

Eustace Tilley said:

I also just checked my Riva shirt from NSM. I have had it for ~3 years, so I'm guessing its been washed about 20-25 times. A bit of wear-n-tear on the collar/cuffs, but otherwise just fine. Can't imagine what happened with your batch.

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Maybe you guys just tolerate more fraying than me. Visible wear and tear after twenty washings doesn't sound acceptable. And from my experience, rapid deterioration onsets after a certain point. You'll have tolerable, gradual fraying for a time (say, about where you are), then things suddenly fall off a cliff.

Keep in mind, I've had my Riva shirts longer than it sounds like most of you have had yours. The oldest go back to 2007. So . . . "watch out" is all I have to say.

Manton said:

I think the way to approach Geneva is, get all your experiments and nitpicking out of the way as early as possible. They will work with you. But if every single order has some microscopic change, they will get annoyed.

As I have said, my earliest shirts from them turned out to be burners. Not unwearable by any means, but compared to the later versions, which are so much better, I found that I just didn't wear them, so I put them in the attic.

I did ask, long after I started, for a higher armhole. They said I wouldn't like it, it doesn't work the same way on shirts as on coats. I said do it anyway. They did and ... I didn't like it. I admitted my error and they reverted to the older pattern, which I have used ever since.

Oh and I spoke a little too soon re: fraying. A few of them are frayed at the corners where the double cuff folds over. But that's it. And VERY minor. My first order with them was 2005 and so far not a single shirt has given out.

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Yeah, I've been following your lead on how to approach them. I was pretty damned happy with my first shirt (the dinner shirt) though. Maybe some minor nitpicking is possible, but not much.

mafoofan said:

Do you happen to have any pics of your collar worn with a tie?

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Unfortunately not. I've had mine constructed specifically for wear w/o a tie (longer points, no tie space, closer buttoning point).

If you want the single cuff option - why not have BC made with the extra buttonhole and you have both options!

Why not get extra collars and cuffs from the same fabric? You can replace them every 3 years or so, when fraying becomes apparent. I believe this is standard procedure for most custom shirtmakers



gyalos said:

Why not get extra collars and cuffs from the same fabric? You can replace them every 3 years or so, when fraying becomes apparent. I believe this is standard procedure for most custom shirtmakers

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It's really not SP. Maybe it used to be, I don't know. I've had makers offer to do this for a fee, but none have ever simply included them with the base price.



Butler said:

If you want the single cuff option - why not have BC made with the extra buttonhole and you have both options!

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Because then, unless I'm imagining this wrong, you'd have a button showing when the cuff is fastened by links.

gyalos said:

Why not get extra collars and cuffs from the same fabric? You can replace them every 3 years or so, when fraying becomes apparent. I believe this is standard procedure for most custom shirtmakers

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I think most places charge you a fee for that. In this case, since I'm sourcing the cloth on my own, I'll just keep the excess handy to cut replacements in the future.

mafoofan said:

Because then, unless I'm imagining this wrong, you'd have a button showing when the cuff is fastened by links.

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In my convertible cuff shirts the button is sewn in such a way that you can pass it through the "extra" buttonhole so it stays on the inside part of the cuff.

mafoofan said:

Butler said:

If you want the single cuff option - why not have BC made with the extra buttonhole and you have both options!

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Because then, unless I'm imagining this wrong, you'd have a button showing when the cuff is fastened by links.

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The button is fastened inside the cuff on a long shank, and you pass it through the hole to put in the "barrel" position. You wouldn't see it when wearing links.

EDIT: Damn you, RDiaz, and your quick responses.



RDiaz said:

In my convertible cuff shirts the button is sewn in such a way that you can pass it through the "extra" buttonhole so it stays on the inside part of the cuff.

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I'm very confused.

Anyway, I don't have any of the French cuff anxiety a lot of you guys seem to suffer from. I've been wearing them exclusively on my dress shirts for years without feeling inconvenienced. If I do linked cuffs, they will be linked cuffs and nothing else. The only reason I'd do barrels would be to go with a buttondown collar.



RDiaz said:

In my convertible cuff shirts the button is sewn in such a way that you can pass it through the "extra" buttonhole so it stays on the inside part of the cuff.

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This, and here is an example I posted in the past:

(these pictures show the unfastened cuff, with the button in the "barrel" position, then passed through the buttonhole so it becomes "invisible" and ready for links)

So, when you fasten the cuff with the button instead of a link, it just looks like a single cuff fastened by a button? I thought the point was to fasten it just like a true barrel cuff, with one side overlapping the other.