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The OneShirt: A Phoenix from the Ashes [4/24/13 UPDATE: A SHIRTMAKER, AN ENGLISHMAN, CHAMBRAY,... - Page 66

post #976 of 1166
Thread Starter 
I'm just less enamored with the English aesthetic. However, it is a relatively marginal difference in preference. If Rubinacci ever fails me, I will likely turn to Savile Row rather than seek out another Italian.
post #977 of 1166
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Y View Post

I'll be more pessimistic and say that the whole custom clothing industry is more screwed up than anyone suspects. Perhaps it is a problem intrinsic to being an artisanal maker (especially with the scale of attention and popularity that the Internet can bring to them), or perhaps most of them have no desire to become more organized. Whatever it is, I think people should go into these kinds of things with their eyes open, but with their expectations of excellent service in the event of a screw-up elevated. Excellent service is probably the main thing everyone should look for in these kinds of relationships, because something will get screwed up along the way and probably more than once.

I think people who must have things right the first time should buy off the rack and have it altered locally. Anyone who wants to try out some of the more obscure or exotic vendors/makers have to be prepared for heartbreak, or at least a long wait (before probable heartbreak). But if you must have custom, then I'd look for a local person that you can deal with personally and make the feedback loop as small and fast as possible.

That said, I'm not sure how you figure out whether someone has good service or not in the case of fixing screw-ups. It seems like not even past history is an accurate predictor of future behavior.

Andre, this is exactly right. But you and I have been around the block more than others who are still stubbornly wide-eyed. The most recent attempt to defend polyester shirting is endemic of what I mean. Someone used to "artisan" bamboozling will not be all that shocked by SG's lie (or, fraud, let's be honest) and accept that their chambray simply isn't what it's been cracked up to be. Others who are still enraptured by the magic of #menswear will fail to see that and assume SG is doing no wrong. In fact, they will rush to buy the now half-priced chambray that Torsten is trying to off-load . . .
post #978 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Who is a better authority on what a shirting is made of? The shirtmaker, a client of the shirtmaker, or the manufacturer of the shirting?

SG lied to its own Danish distributor about the material content of its chambray, before being forced to come clean. Why should we be surprised that they also lied to the shirtmakers who buy it?


This depend how is the shirtmaker, the client, the manufacturer!
post #979 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by hws View Post

One time my friend speak me a joke, something about Die Nile is River.

Can't say I've ever heard that one.

But I feel like it loses something in translation.
post #980 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post


I have no idea what you mean. Mind clarifying?

Also, in another thread, you mentioned it was the first time you'd seen me say something helpful. Perhaps you could stand some perspective? I've been on this forum five years longer than you, with a post count to show for it. I've done my fair share of helping.

 

I wasn't putting your reputation to the test, I simply stated that your position, about assuming that you committed a mistake being an embarrassment, was common for arrogant persons, which I think you are, and, as I see myself as one too, I showed to you the "bright side" of your action, which I try to convince myself so as too suppress my character flaw. 

About the second half of your reply, perhaps I did not express myself correctly, but it seems that you are mistaken, again.

 

 

Quote:
Great job, Foo. This is the best participation that I've ever saw from you in a thread, polite and instructive. I'm learning a lot from the informations shared here.

 

post #981 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantabrigian View Post

Can't say I've ever heard that one.

I feel like it's one of those that loses something in translation.


Sorry I can not to explain so good this joke, I will ask to my friend how I can to explain! Any one other can to explain?
post #982 of 1166
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor Elfo View Post

I wasn't putting your reputation to the test, I simply stated that your position, about assuming that you committed a mistake being an embarrassment, was common for arrogant persons, which I think you are, and, as I see myself as one too, I showed to you the "bright side" of your action, which I try to convince myself so as too suppress my character flaw. 
About the second half of your reply, perhaps I did not express myself correctly, but it seems that you are mistaken, again.

Is English not your first language? I mean that in full sincerity, as I see you are in Brazil.

I fail to see how a history of openly admitting errors, as I have, is evidence of arrogance. I don't think making mistakes and admitting them is a flaw. Rather, the past few pages suggested that others do.
post #983 of 1166
^now that you mention this, the list seems incomplete...

wasn't there a store where the sales people were amazed that you spoke english so well?
post #984 of 1166
I think that perhaps the larger lesson in all of this (and it's one I've certainly learned through my experience on the forum) is that a bit of caution is warranted - in both directions - when writing reviews.

Anyone can have a good / bad experience. And that same anyone can later be surprised by having a subsequent experience that is the opposite.

People chuckle, however, when someone goes from writing glowing paeans to vitriolic condemnations.

That's not due to ignorance about the variability of handmade goods. It's down to the lack of nuance involved in the critiques. Anyone can be dazzled by an intial experience with some craft but it pays to be more analytical about things - both when they're good and when they're not so good.

I'd suggest that every maker not only falls somewhere on a broad good-bad spectrum but can oscilate, in some cases widely, along that scale. Being willing to move someone from one extreme to another, while preferable to an even more naive categorization, doesn't do much to capture the reality of the situation.
post #985 of 1166

Perhaps just wordplay on The Nile / denial is a river?

post #986 of 1166
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuro View Post

^now that you mention this, the list seems incomplete...

wasn't there a store where the sales people were amazed that you spoke english so well?

Ah, Paul Stuart in Chicago. They also followed me around the store and wouldn't let me walk around with my shopping bags. But that wasn't unique to Paul Stuart in Chicago. I really fucking hate that city.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantabrigian View Post

It's down to the lack of nuance involved in the critiques. Anyone can be dazzled by an intial experience with some craft but it pays to be more analytical about things - both when they're good and when they're not so good.

I endeavor to be nuanced, but find that most don't want to hear it. People are too religious about these things.
post #987 of 1166
I thought all the Paul Stuart sales agents were ex-KGB and that they did that as a matter of course.
post #988 of 1166
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantabrigian View Post

I thought all the Paul Stuart sales agents were ex-KGB and that they did that as a matter of course.

When you consistently make light of nuanced accounts, it's hard to believe you want nuanced accounts.

Racism and ignorance are big problems in Chicago. There is a dominating "good 'ol boy" culture and ethnicities are highly segregated by geography. Walking around the central and northern parts of the city, one would be forgiven for thinking Chicago is 95% white.
post #989 of 1166
I'm as white bread as they come and the Paul Stuart agents don't let me just walk around unaccompanied.

I thought that was well known enough to have reached meme status.

And at any rate, it seems fairly independent of Chicago's racial history given that it happened to me a dozen times in NY.
post #990 of 1166
I didn't think Asians were subjected to that particular kind of racism

Also, doesn't Chicago have a large population of poor white people of Polish descent, who are also met with racism?

(I know nothing about Chicago, but I'm interested to learn -- it has a very unusual reputation.)
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