or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › The OneShirt: A Phoenix from the Ashes [4/24/13 UPDATE: A SHIRTMAKER, AN ENGLISHMAN, CHAMBRAY, AND FIRE]
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The OneShirt: A Phoenix from the Ashes [4/24/13 UPDATE: A SHIRTMAKER, AN ENGLISHMAN, CHAMBRAY,... - Page 61

post #901 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

I'm sure the cost is lower, but low enough to intentionally risk the reputation of your company? I kind of doubt that.

Eliminate the impossible and whatever remains however improbable must be the cause.  My money's on it being money, they're hardly charging a bomb for bog standard polycotton out of the goodness of their hearts.

post #902 of 1166
Or it was an intentional and honest choice, however ill-advised, by the fabric designers that wasn't then communicated forcefully enough to the sales people. This seems way more likely to me.
post #903 of 1166
Maybe there's something to SG's claim that the poly adds something to the character of the cloth. Lands' End or a similar company back in the 80's or early 90's made all their t-shirts out of cotton except for their heathered ones. Those had a bit of poly in it, and they claimed it was for the heathering.

LE doesn't say this currently, but here's a link to Champion t-shirts in which only the heathered one has poly.

Edit: Actually, LE has a bit of poly in their premium, made in the US t-shirts -- again, only for the heathered ones. Same is true for their sweats.
post #904 of 1166
Just a note for people who were interested in the oxfords and chambrays I posted earlier. A member on here advised that I take it down, since the merchant is not technically set up to do retail sales (only wholesale). If you're interested in the cloth, you'll need to go through your shirtmaker.

The previous posts are now taken down. Apologies for the mistake.
post #905 of 1166
It seems that the way forward is clear: commission a custom run of chambray with Acorn or a similar maker. I'd be happy to sign up - I've been looking for a nice, variegated shirting that can be dressed up or down according to the occasion. Perhaps also in a winter and summer weight?
post #906 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Are we seriously entertaining the notion that polyester is a legitimate material for nice shirting? Sorry, but that's just drowning in denial. How many of us could feel the difference between SG chambray and a two-buck-a-yard cotton-poly blend in a blind test? Do you really think there is a difference? Do you really believe that SG purposely uses polyester to achieve some sort of visual effect? I can't remember hearing something so absurd from someone so well-reputed in the industry.

Come on, guys. Wake up. I fell for it too, but enough is enough. Draw the line. The truth is, this whole experience only proves how little anybody can tell about cloth and other materials by touch, feel, and appearance. That includes tailors and shirtmakers, believe it or not. We buy stuff like SG chambray on reputation, which is the only metric that can be relied on with any consistency, but then tell ourselves that our refined senses pickup on the intrinsic quality. Well, when I find out a loved cloth is part polyester, that destroys the maker's reputation, humbles me, and makes me doubt everyone who still sticks up for the stuff.

Don't fool yourselves. In men's clothing, reputation is everything, and it always trumps what you think you feel between your fingers.

1. I don't get it. You've been told by shirtmakers that the stuff is crap.

2. Apart from touch, feel and appearance, what exactly is there to shirting fabric?


Basically, I don't understand that your outrage is happening now as opposed to when you were told by your shirtmaker that the stuff is crap. It's crap because it's crap, not because of the revelation that it contains polyester.

There may well never be nice shirting that contains polyester, there may eventually be. I don't know. But crap shirting is crap shirting and I don't know why you need the discovery that it contains polyester to confirm that for you when you'd already been told so by multiple sources.

Again, what was it that you initially liked about the SG chambray?

You're not even pretending that it's a unique fabric anymore, so what was it that you found attractive?
post #907 of 1166
Good questions. I wonder if there are lessons here to be learned other than outrage?
post #908 of 1166
Didn't Vox get a bunch of dress shirts made up in SG chambray? How did he get fooled? Will he disavow his shirts? So many questions.
post #909 of 1166
My understanding is that the chambray is fine stuff if it were $2-$5 per yard, instead it is $50 per yard. I bought it at $50 per yard. The shirt made from it is fine, though may not be the best value for the money. I still haven't seen a cheaper alternative in real life with the same color and texture.

I think there is a tendency for people to divide things into black or white (you know who you are), e.g. good vs bad, beautiful vs ugly, natural shoulder vs pa-f***ed shoulder and etc. In my experience, there is a lot of gray between black and white. It is the granularity and shades of gray that make the world what it is and I think the world is richer for it.
post #910 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by poorsod View Post

I think there is a tendency for people to divide things into black or white (you know who you are), e.g. good vs bad, beautiful vs ugly, natural shoulder vs pa-f***ed shoulder and etc. In my experience, there is a lot of gray between black and white..

I agree. Some things, for example, are 80% good and 20% bad or 80% beautiful and 20% ugly.
post #911 of 1166
Speaking of statistics - we have had assertions that some are 99 percent more sophisticated than all the other plebes. I guess they are beyond the 80/20 rule the rest of us live by.
post #912 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by bertie View Post

Didn't Vox get a bunch of dress shirts made up in SG chambray? How did he get foofed? Will he disavow his shirts? So many questions.

Fixed
post #913 of 1166
FWIW
My tailor here in Seattle (with workshop in HK) has complained for years that there is an enormous amount of counterfeit fabric coming out of China. His long time supplier retired recently complaining that he could not maintain a reliable supply chain.
post #914 of 1166
By using polyester fibers, the manufacturer can blend very low quality cotton fiber. By low quality I mean very short fibers. Fibers so short, they may be unusable as a 100% cotton shirt.

Polyester is basically a very long and strong fiber. To get that in cotton, you need the relatively expensive long fiber cotton such as South Sea, etc.
post #915 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Are we seriously entertaining the notion that polyester is a legitimate material for nice shirting? Sorry, but that's just drowning in denial. How many of us could feel the difference between SG chambray and a two-buck-a-yard cotton-poly blend in a blind test? Do you really think there is a difference? Do you really believe that SG purposely uses polyester to achieve some sort of visual effect? I can't remember hearing something so absurd from someone so well-reputed in the industry.

Come on, guys. Wake up. I fell for it too, but enough is enough. Draw the line. The truth is, this whole experience only proves how little anybody can tell about cloth and other materials by touch, feel, and appearance. That includes tailors and shirtmakers, believe it or not. We buy stuff like SG chambray on reputation, which is the only metric that can be relied on with any consistency, but then tell ourselves that our refined senses pickup on the intrinsic quality. Well, when I find out a loved cloth is part polyester, that destroys the maker's reputation, humbles me, and makes me doubt everyone who still sticks up for the stuff.

Don't fool yourselves. In men's clothing, reputation is everything, and it always trumps what you think you feel between your fingers.
yes but this an Internet / forum phenomenon. My shirtmaker said almost exactly the same thighs that Shirtmaven said when showing me the cut offs of SG from a fellow member that had shirt made there. He would not have dreamt of having shirt made of that stuff. Alumo also got great reputation, people would buy it here just because they read here it is great, but personally do not like the touch so much, I prefer G&R or Atelier Romentino at equal finesse. So I trust my touch, not what people may say here as groupthink .
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Classic Menswear
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › The OneShirt: A Phoenix from the Ashes [4/24/13 UPDATE: A SHIRTMAKER, AN ENGLISHMAN, CHAMBRAY, AND FIRE]