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The OneShirt: A Phoenix from the Ashes [4/24/13 UPDATE: A SHIRTMAKER, AN ENGLISHMAN, CHAMBRAY,... - Page 59

post #871 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Have you ever heard a BMW dealer load praise on Mercedes? Nope, quite the opposite--because they don't sell Mercedes.

FWIW, when I was shopping for my Cayman, I went over to the BMW dealer next door to look at the MZ4 Coupe. The sales staff there knew me because I'd bought my BMW from them. The first thing they told me was, "Get the Cayman. Don't even consider the Z4." There was an MZ4 Coupe on the showroom floor, so it wasn't like they didn't have one to sell.
post #872 of 1166
Maybe I missed something... But what about foo's burning experiments that supposedly *proved* that new SG is all cotton?

Andrey
post #873 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

If you are making choices without respect to the reputation of a fabric maker, then I'd argue that you aren't making informed choices. Your shirtmaker, like any other, is unreliable on his own.

I find this statement offensive
I understand this to mean shirtmakers are lairs and cheats, who plan to do their best to rip off their customers
by selling them substandard fabric. just to make an extra $10-20 on a sale.
I have seen garbage coming out of Albini/Thomas Mason. I have also bought great fabric from mills that are off the SF radar.

Why would I push crap fabric on a good customer. If the shirts don't wear well, I will either have to deal with the consequences or never
see that customer again.

I have been in the trade for over 30 years. I think, by now, I would know what fabric makes up well, and what fabric is crap

the first time i was handed the SG chambray(version #2), I laughed at the customer and asked where it came from and why he bought it.

Foo. you were dumbfounded when version #3 was just as bad in it's own way.
But you did not want to believe my statement at first. You wanted to buy into the myth of the SG chambray, so badly, that you could not hear what Eugene or I had to say.
post #874 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post

Eugene has always been honest to me about the cloth I bring him. Some he has praised, some he has said is junk. He does not praise to flatter nor condemn to sell, in my experience.

Same here.

But he's always been always offered a straight opinion which never seems dependent on a desire to sell something.

He actually said he liked the SG old polyester chambray that I now hate, rather than try to sell me something out of a book.
post #875 of 1166
It seems like a pretty weird thing for SG to do...I mean, how much money are they really saving by slipping 20% poly into the fabric? I'm asking out of genuine ignorance. But it doesn't seem like it would be that much. Seems like a small reward to gain if they're intentionally risking relationships and reputation by lying about their product.
post #876 of 1166
Are they a weaver or do they contract that out?

Maybe they didn't know themselves ?

I don't care one way or the other, it's just fun to speculate.
post #877 of 1166
Questions for those who have already had some SG chambray made up:

1) Does it actually wear noticeably warmer than your all-cotton shirts of similar weight?

2) Does it actually hold onto odors more than your all-cotton shirts?

If you are crestfallen at the recent revelations, please try to refer to your previous feelings on these two questions.
post #878 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post


If you are making choices without respect to the reputation of a fabric maker, then I'd argue that you aren't making informed choices. Your shirtmaker, like any other, is unreliable on his own.

 

The point you are making is hard to follow, if you are making decisions based on reputation how is that an informed choice?  You can be informed on colour, handle, weight and how these appeal to you subjectively but I fail to see how the reputation of the mill supersedes that of the shirtmaker?  They're both based on reputation.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

They did not correct themselves. They admitted fraud after being pressured by the distributor and mounting evidence against them.

Look, they are total fuckers. I don't understand the need to defend them despite their obvious manipulation and dishonesty.

 

I agree.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

It seems like a pretty weird thing for SG to do...I mean, how much money are they really saving by slipping 20% poly into the fabric? I'm asking out of genuine ignorance. But it doesn't seem like it would be that much. Seems like a small reward to gain if they're intentionally risking relationships and reputation by lying about their product.

 

Because the margins on such fabrics are much higher, even wool/poly blends are cheaper by a factor greater than the content of synthetic fibre in them.  I don't know why this is, but why would you mix fine i.e. expensive fibres in with a synthetic?  That 20% poly means a fairly hefty margin on a product that is already marked up to the nines. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantabrigian View Post

Are they a weaver or do they contract that out?

Maybe they didn't know themselves ?

I don't care one way or the other, it's just fun to speculate.

 

As far as the scuttlebutt on the internet goes, nobody seems to have visited the place in person, which is probably the only way you could know for sure.

post #879 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarbutch View Post

Questions for those who have already had some SG chambray made up:

1) Does it actually wear noticeably warmer than your all-cotton shirts of similar weight?

2) Does it actually hold onto odors more than your all-cotton shirts?

If you are crestfallen at the recent revelations, please try to refer to your previous feelings on these two questions.

I detailed my hatred for the old SG chambray earlier.

I don't dislike it more for its polyester.

Similarly, I'm strangely unhurt by the fact that Will and SG ripped me off.
post #880 of 1166
Any vultures want 2 kop my voile?

I think I have two chainz lengths
post #881 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantabrigian View Post

Similarly, I'm strangely unhurt by the fact that Will and SG ripped me off.

I don't think Will was being deceptive when he sold the cloth. Like most of us, he probably thought that it was what we used to think it was.
post #882 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by mactire View Post


Because the margins on such fabrics are much higher, even wool/poly blends are cheaper by a factor greater than the content of synthetic fibre in them.  I don't know why this is, but why would you mix fine i.e. expensive fibres in with a synthetic?  That 20% poly means a fairly hefty margin on a product that is already marked up to the nines. 

Ok, so how much do you think they're saving per meter by weaving it with 20% poly instead of 100% cotton? $5? I'd be very surprised if it were that much, given that you can buy 100% cotton chambray for that much. But I'd love to hear from someone who would know the actual answer, or at least a more informed guess than mine.
post #883 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Y View Post

I don't think Will was being deceptive when he sold the cloth. Like most of us, he probably thought that it was what we used to think it was.

...on 18th century looms.

I actually like Will quite a lot, and I'm sure he's just repeating stuff he heard, but he seems to be the source of most of the BS surrounding this fabric.
post #884 of 1166
And also the deer bone...
post #885 of 1166
Sometimes I am glad I am not a shoe-boning iGent.
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