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The OneShirt: A Phoenix from the Ashes [4/24/13 UPDATE: A SHIRTMAKER, AN ENGLISHMAN, CHAMBRAY,... - Page 41

post #601 of 1166
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hws View Post

The finishing is necessary, you must to see the tissu when it come from the loom, before the finishing! Finishing is also for to set dimension stability of tissu, no only for this, also other raison!

This days use other substance, is some restriction, much much year before some times use thing like formaldehyde for part of finishing!

Are you saying that finishing can make the yarns more stretchy and resilient? That was the original question raised.
post #602 of 1166
Very interesting and helpful thread, Foo. Thanks.

I look forward to seeing samples of the Indian chambray, Carl.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

...
You're right, the polyester is not the sole cause of the shirting's fuzziness . However, it's evident with close observation that it is caused by breakaway fibers. I don't think that can be a good thing, and the polyester content can only make it worse. ..

I remember hearing that in blended garments, it's the polyester that pills, since cotton fibers break away with abrasion and polyester fibers tend to stretch. When the poly fibers relax again, they sometimes twist and bunch together, which causes pilling.

But if so, I wonder why this happens in some poly or poly-blend fabrics and not in others. It doesn't seem to depend on the weave, as I have decades old cotton/poly garments that haven't pilled in all kinds of weaves, including jersey, oxford cloth, twill, and fleece.
post #603 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Are you saying that finishing can make the yarns more stretchy and resilient? That was the original question raised.


I say that with out the finishing the tissu will to be so differing, first the tissu come from the loom more wide than of 90 cm or 150 cm. After finish will to be come 90 cm or 150 cm. Dimension stabilité normal is fix by finishing, tissu should not to change more of +/- 1%. Of course this days even tissu finish some time change more of +/- 1%, also in this days cannot to always trust dimension stabilité of all historique so good tisserand. For example in this days even SIC Tess, Alumo have some tissus which no reäct in manner expect similar of previous. For small tisserand similar of Riva e Bonfanti can to be difficult knowing what can to expect of tissu finish. Some time big tisserand have in same family of company facility for to finish tissu.
post #604 of 1166
FWIW, here are some old photos of some chambray fabrics I bought from Rosen & Chadick in NYC.

These wouldn't make for good business shirts, but I like them for casual use. Ellen at R&C told me once which mill these are from, but I've since forgotten.

In any case, the bottom two swatches in the last pic are 97/3 cotton/ lycra blends, which make them a bit stretchy (and undesirable, IMO). The second swatch from the top is too thick and stiff for a shirt, I think. I choose the top one, which is what you see in the first two photos.

To my eye, it looks somewhat similar to what Matt burned, but this one is 100% cotton ( and 64" at $18.95). The bottom photo has the most accurate representation of color.





I have a few more chambray swatches here that Ascot Chang sent me. From what I remember, one of them was very suitable for office use. If I can, I'll try to take photos later today.
post #605 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

What do you know about the "new" chambray, such as I posted on my blog?

Not much, although the old forum member had asked the shirtmaker to retain some off cut for me to see (he had both SG types) , we could not find it in the workroom. However The shirtmaker was not impressed by either and kept ask me why someone would want to buy shirting like that. I told him that if he knew the price people were paying he would be even less impressed, but was favourably impressed with the Albini stuff, obviously for more casual shirts in his opinion. The shop where i bought it from, also told me to have bought several full bolt from Albini and was having it "washed" to obtain different colour variation, the same treatments denim gets, and one tonality was very close to the old chambray i have a sample of. The Old length is in Naples, not with me so cannot do further comparisons
post #606 of 1166
plz tell us what we are supposed to obsess over and hunt down in 50m rolls, thx
post #607 of 1166
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post

plz tell us what we are supposed to obsess over and hunt down in 50m rolls, thx

There seems to have been an original, "rough" chambray from SG that was 100% cotton and woven on old looms. That stuff is long gone. The closest thing that SG sells today is a cotton-polyester blend woven on modern looms--their current "rough" chambray. It's what they've been selling for the past few years. If people have been happy with it, I see no problem. Maybe they just need to admit polyester may not be such a bad thing. I dunno. But I think it's funny that anybody would be praising the stuff like it was God's own shirting, only to then turn against it when they find out it has a synthetic fiber in its yarns. If someone likes the way it feels and behaves, why should it matter what it's made of?

In fact, lots of the things people seem to like about it are directly related to the polyester content. It is springy and resilient, and it has a hairy, furry hand due to loose fibers coming out (you can get this effect without polyester, but it is a trademark result of mixing poly with cotton). It appears that the fibers in the blue yarns dyed unevenly, as one would expect with a blended composition, resulting in the mottled, variegated coloration.
post #608 of 1166

I never got the categorical repudiation of synthetic fibres in clothing on this site. Many useful physical properties in fabrics are only rendered possible through certain polymers.

 

For instance a low percentage of polyamide in overcoats can be tremendously useful. Some may even argue that buttons without polyester are equally unimaginable as waistcoats without rayon.

 

But this is probably the topic of another discussion.

 

Somewhat more on topic:

when you are referring to the weight of fabrics e.g. 140g/m you all mean grams per square metre?

I've seen it many times referred to as weight per distance or length instead of area. So I get confused whether you actually mean weight of one metre times the width of the cloth, since many manufacturers are doing their on dirty thing when it comes to width depending on which loom they're using (Riva with 90cm width and Mason with 150cm and I've even seen some in 115cm)

post #609 of 1166
Perhaps people don't expect to pay $100+ per meter for poly blend though.
post #610 of 1166
I just want to say how much I appreciate a thread that begins with "Phoenix" in the title and eventually actually includes setting something on fire. icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif
post #611 of 1166
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bertie View Post

Perhaps people don't expect to pay $100+ per meter for poly blend though.

People bought into the mystique of Simonnot Godard chambray without understanding it. Our minds granted it magical appeal. So, why shouldn't Simonnot Godard charge a price fitting for that magic and mystique? Nothing anyone liked about the stuff (the coloration, the hand, etc.) ever had anything to do with the supposition that it's 100% cotton. That is the irony--not that anyone was cheated, but that people like polyester in their shirting
post #612 of 1166
I agree - people liked the look and presumed there we some heritage behind it. I think at least some of the discussion though is that no one expects a poly blend to sell for the price of high end wool.
post #613 of 1166
WYMWWM
post #614 of 1166
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

WYMWWM

???
post #615 of 1166
when I was younger, "chambray" was all the rage. This would have been the mid to late 80s. I don't know what it was exactly but it looked like light weight denim. Lighter and softer. It was a very popular shirting. Though no one said "shirting" then needless to say. I remember that I had one from polo that I wore until it died. Styled like an OCBD. also, there was a California cheap clothing company called "miller's outpost" that used to advertize on all my favorite low-end UHF channels, KTLA, KOFY and the like, and they were always hawking their "chambray"
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