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The OneShirt: A Phoenix from the Ashes [4/24/13 UPDATE: A SHIRTMAKER, AN ENGLISHMAN, CHAMBRAY,... - Page 2

post #16 of 1166
Am I the only one who doesn't care about what Foo decides for his OneShirt confused.gif



Not because I don't love and care about you foofy but because we already know that you already have your mind made up and will vehemently knock down any suggestions anyway, not that I would suggest anything because I don't really care what you decide to begin with. Its a vicious circle.
post #17 of 1166
Thread Starter 
Oh, Ed. Don't you get it? Just because you may not be able to influence my own decisions doesn't mean we can't have an engaging, enlightening discussion about shirts, using my OneShirt project as a jumping point.

For example, what do you think of using single cuffs in daily business wear? And if permissible, does the shirting make a difference? With its formal connotations, would such a cuff be verboten in a more casual shirting like chambray? Are the connotations moot because the cuff would have been removed from its "proper" use to begin with? Would the interlining needed to support a single cuff be so thick and stiff as to be the determining factor? The mind reels.
post #18 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

Am I the only one who doesn't care about what Foo decides for his OneShirt confused.gif



Not because I don't love and care about you foofy but because we already know that you already have your mind made up and will vehemently knock down any suggestions anyway, not that I would suggest anything because I don't really care what you decide to begin with. Its a vicious circle.

I am on a different foot. I wont suggest anything to Foo since he made his mind already anyway. Though would be interested to see his one shirt.
post #19 of 1166
Fraying at the fifth or sixth cycle it's incredible!

I think that fine clothes can last longer only if handwashed at home (that is the standard in Italy)
Even the finer batista fabric should last at least 50-80 cycle if handwashed and natural dried.

I never had a shirt handwashed frayed anywhere except in the inside of the collar but was caused by the beard.
post #20 of 1166

I'm not sure I would be able to or want to wear the same shirt every day. I do favor blue or blue/white almost exclusively, so I like to try to add some patterns in the mix. Though, I admit, I often get into trouble in the "Good Taste" thread when wearing some kind of patterned shirt.

post #21 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post


Always machine-washed at home, in lingerie bags, on the gentle cycle. Hung dry and hand ironed.

Early signs of fraying could be seen by the fifth or sixth cycle. By the twentieth wearing, the collars and cuffs were badly enough frayed that most people would have considered the shirts unwearable and in need of repair. I soldiered on in denial. Clearly, Riva shirting is not made to withstand being worn more than once a month.

That said, it's worth noting that the hand-stitching has all held up perfectly. I'm really astonished by the quality of the workmanship. If I could do it all over again, I would just make sure to supply my own non-Italian shirting.

Does your washer have an agitator? Those things can destroy your clothes much more quickly than the washers without.

 

Also, this may be a stupid question, but do you wash the shirt after each wearing?

post #22 of 1166

Single cuffs would strike me as odd, but then again I like that french cuffs are heavier than barrel -- and I have no problem with barrel. It would a weird stylistic choice, for me, but you're approaching it from a tactile perspective.

 

Why no love for the placket? I find the asymmetry of french-front shirts off-putting, even though I don't mind front pockets. That's inconsistent of me, but oh well.

 

I can't help but think the four shirt option would be the most prudent -- being able to choose between light blue end-on-end with spread collar and blue chambray BD makes sense to me, along with the two patterns.

 

A pair of questions:

 

1. If you went BD, would you wear it with a DB suit?

 

2. Would you regard gingham as a summer pattern, or wear it year-round?

post #23 of 1166
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexSF View Post

Fraying at the fifth or sixth cycle it's incredible!

I think that fine clothes can last longer only if handwashed at home (that is the standard Italy)
Even the finer batista fabric should last at least 50-80 cycle if handwashed and natural dried.

I never had a shirt handwashed frayed anywhere except in the inside of the collar but was caused by the beard.

The twills wore out faster, but the poplins followed shortly. I'm not sure of the fineness of the yarns, as Riva doesn't provide numbers--or at least, none were made available by my shirtmaker.

If it is really the case that Riva shirting must be hand-washed for acceptable longevity, it isn't an option for me anyway. That's just too much of a hassle. My wife would kill me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by msulinski View Post

I'm not sure I would be able to or want to wear the same shirt every day. I do favor blue or blue/white almost exclusively, so I like to try to add some patterns in the mix. Though, I admit, I often get into trouble in the "Good Taste" thread when wearing some kind of patterned shirt.

Like I said, I will have patterns, too. But, from my experience, plain blue is best 80% of the time.
post #24 of 1166
To me the universe of wearable shirts is basically blue, white, pink (sparingly), bengal stripes, and (mostly for no tie) gingham and tattersall. That's pretty much it. There might be the occasional shirt that falls outside this that is good, but it's rare. Some people like various shades of off-white, I've never really had a taste for them.
post #25 of 1166
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by msulinski View Post

Does your washer have an agitator? Those things can destroy your clothes much more quickly than the washers without.

Also, this may be a stupid question, but do you wash the shirt after each wearing?

We use side-loading machines. I don't believe there is anything like an agitator in them.

Yes, the shirts are washed after each wearing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YRR92 View Post

Why no love for the placket? I find the asymmetry of french-front shirts off-putting, even though I don't mind front pockets. That's inconsistent of me, but oh well.

Never really thought of the asymmetry until you mentioned it. I prefer going placket-less because the look is much cleaner and less fussy that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YRR92 View Post

I can't help but think the four shirt option would be the most prudent -- being able to choose between light blue end-on-end with spread collar and blue chambray BD makes sense to me, along with the two patterns.

A pair of questions:

1. If you went BD, would you wear it with a DB suit?

2. Would you regard gingham as a summer pattern, or wear it year-round?

1. Sure, why not?

2. I'd wear it year round, with a tie. I know that's probably against the rules, but I don't care. I think it is under-utilzed and far superior to regular checks.
post #26 of 1166
Kamakura is adding MTM in a month or so. They may be a good candidate for you. Their current BDs are lined but not fused and the collar has a great shape. Quality is good and I assume will be equally good or better in MTM.
What do you have against gauntlet buttons? I will be disappointed if you simply don't like them - I am hoping for something more thought out and prescriptive, suggesting why gauntlet buttons are bad and should be avoided.
I get them out of habit, even on FC shirts, which is a no-no. I should probably drop them on, at least, NSM's FC shirts since they used to do such a nice sleeve opening and bar tack on those when there was no gauntlet button. Does anyone know if they still do?
post #27 of 1166
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

To me the universe of wearable shirts is basically blue, white, pink (sparingly), bengal stripes, and (mostly for no tie) gingham and tattersall. That's pretty much it. There might be the occasional shirt that falls outside this that is good, but it's rare. Some people like various shades of off-white, I've never really had a taste for them.

I agree with you in principle. You only need a few basic, elemental shirting patterns. One stripe and one check. In my experience, the bolder, larger versions are more usable and versatile--hence, my preference for bengal and gingham.

Rather than pink, my first choice after blue would be a burgundy and white bengal stripe.
post #28 of 1166
I've never had Geneva express any anti-placket opinion. All mine have plackets. I don't even remember if we discussed it but my first order was a long time ago.

So, most of that stuff you listed is just personal preference. The only one I would question is the single cuff. I would question it on two grounds, first, that all your shirts would take links (bad idea) and second, that you'd want your link shirts to be single rather than double. Also, your objection to loose button cuffs is easily remedied in the bespoke process, I've gotten mine exactly the circumference that I like, trim without being loose or snug.

I think your choice of fabric also unecessarily excludes seasonality and I don't see what benefit you derive from that.

If I were design a minimalist shirt wardrobe, I would suggest one white FC shrit, one blue FC shirt (both broadcloth), a couple of white barrel cuff, then a dozen or so solid blue barell cuff, say six broadcloth, three linen-cotton, three chabray (or 4-4-4), or, if you have the cash, 5-5-5, which could get you through any given week's weather. Plus a few blue OCDBs. I also find a white OCBD (pinpoint) useful for weekend nights out.

Those above do tend to be the types I wear the most though I enjoy having some stripes, checks, and some other colors.
post #29 of 1166
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

Kamakura is adding MTM in a month or so. They may be a good candidate for you.

The Japanese raped my people. I refuse to buy their blood-soaked goods--outside of electronics, cars, and certain snack foods.

Just kidding. Well, not entirely. They really did rape my people. Still, I have been wanting to see Kamakura but haven't had a chance. I can easily imagine that the Japanese would be the ones to finally get the BD collar right. However, I do need to get spread-collared shirts, too. That's why I'm hoping Geneva can do it all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

What do you have against gauntlet buttons? I will be disappointed if you simply don't like them - I am hoping for something more thought out and prescriptive, suggesting why gauntlet buttons are bad and should be avoided.

Gauntlet buttons are obstructive. They ruin the clean line of the gauntlet opening, get snagged easily, and are just one extra thing to fasten in the morning and fall off sooner or later. Hence, since they have no apparent function and provide no aesthetic benefit, I tend to associate them with very finicky dressers who believe dressing well means fastidiously concealing one's wrist flesh, or some such nonsense. They are bad and should be avoided.
post #30 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

1. Sure, why not?

2. I'd wear it year round, with a tie. I know that's probably against the rules, but I don't care. I think it is under-utilzed and far superior to regular checks.

 

I've heard button-down collar with DB suit is against the rules.

 

I don't know if it's a rules issue or not, I just find gingham has summery connotations for me. I've been wearing a red shirt that's similar to a gingham lately, and it hasn't bothered me. What's the Luciano Barbera line about wearing a white linen jacket on especially nasty winter days? I think of it as akin to that. I like checks and tattersalls, but that's because I like the plain tie / patterned shirt look about as much as I like the patterned tie / plain shirt. This is partially because most of my jackets are solids.

 

unbelragazzo: No love for different widths of stripes? I like butcher, myself. I'm also a fan of purple stripes.

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