Shush your mouths ladies! When I say sizing down, I do not mean sizing down from your true waist size. If I sized down 2" from my true waist size, I'd be wearing 30s in New Standards, and as I noted, those are too big. The right size for New Standards for me (snug but not pulling/bruisingly tight) is 29, which is sized down 3 from my TRUE WAIST SIZE, but not from my normal denim size (which is average 29). Note that this makes them pretty loose in the leg - not at all a skinny fit. However, that's how they *should* fit on my body type. To get the skinny sillhouette, I have jeans like Nudie Long Johns, Johnbull SC008s, and Women's jeans. I think the language disconnect is the issue. I may have made the mistake of comparing your APC size to your normal denim size. Most of my jeans are size 29 and measure out 32" or so around the waist. My Rag&Bones are 30, and my Johnbulls are 28s, so there are some outliers. A size 29 APC NS fits me nicely in the waist. From your true waist size, 3" down would be the best way to go. But from your normal denim size, 1 size down is enough to accomodate for the weird sizing. I never accomodate for stretching because it's just unavoidable and impossible to conquer. Have you guys been referring to sizing down from your true waist size? I guess I may be in the minority, but when I think sizing down, I think as compared to your normal denim size. I.e. I normally wear 29, but size down for extremely large-sized jeans (Johnbull SC008s, which measure 31.5" at size 28), or size up for smaller-sized jeans (Pure Blue Japans, Levi's). I appreciate the humor, but keep it clean for at least a couple pages.