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Do you care how your coworkers dress? Does the decline of formality of dress bother you? - Page 8

post #106 of 130
3/1/13 at 9:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivar View Post


Not everyone shares the ideals of Styleforum, that's true, but there's irrefutable evidence to the fact that people absolutely do judge by appearance. Not everyone admits to it (and for some people, it's probably a subconscious process), but we all do. The question, therefore, is more whether your occupation or position lets you get away with a suboptimal appearance, and if not, what kind of appearance you should cultivate for your colleagues and clients to view you as favorably as possible.

 

Of course, but that's not what I was arguing. It was the day-to-day productivity claim.  You're right on that one though, I've had more than one conversation with my coworkers (whom I'm closer to) about it. It does matter.

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post #107 of 130
3/1/13 at 10:23am
I think for many people who tend to dress more casually, comfortable really means what they're used to rather than some objective state of comfort. People will adapt and get used to things and this probably includes a more formal dress code.
Quote:
Originally Posted by McBindle View Post

On original topic:  I don't mind how co-workers dress, but my preference is for better dress.  I find it more pleasing to the eye and it gives me a flash of creativity that can carry over into non-sartorial areas of my life.  Muzak doesn't offend me but my brain is more stimulated by other music.  Having said that, the quality of my co-workers' work has the greatest influence over my productivity (and I suspect vice versa).  As others have mentioned, the overall decline in dress formality bothers me only insofar as I have at times been on the receiving end of criticism for things as small as my shirt being crisply ironed and wearing a sport coat at an academic conference. 

Interestingly the criticisms or silly comments have been overwhelmingly from white middle-class guys.  I have rarely, if ever, had negative comments made by women, African Americans, Hispanics, Middle Easterners (though my experience is limited to Turks, Iranians, and Jordanians), or gay men.  There are myriad theories as to why this may be that are best left for other discussions. 

From a physical comfort perspective I find jeans very uncomfortable and much prefer wool slacks or chinos and I like the feel and slight structure of a dress shirt over a t-shirt.  I love the variety and feel of fabrics, the proportions, and high arm holes of a well-fitting sportcoat compared to the billowing and loose fit of a hoodie or golf jacket.  Garments that are considered comfortable in the popular culture give me a sensation of being constricted below the waist and unsupported above.  Sneakers are like bits of old mattresses on my feet.  For those comfort reasons I lament the decline in formality.   

+1. Well dressed guys appreciate other well dressed guys, and even guys who put in a little bit of effort without fully knowing what they're doing. I also get plenty of positive comments from women. Really, the only people who give me a hard time are people who are attrociously dressed (see socks and sandals). Also agree that chinos and wool slacks are more comfortable than jeans and prefer a shirt with a colar. Unless you're wearing a tie, I just don't get how dress shirts are uncomfortable.
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post #108 of 130
3/1/13 at 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by allysan1027 View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by archibaldleach View Post

As I think about this, it's possible that different work environments benefit from different dress codes.

I'm admittedly making some big generalizations, but I do think that a formal dress code would be more beneficial in some professions than others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by archibaldleach View Post

I did not even say that some environments would certainly benefit from a more formal dress code.
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FINISH HIM!!!!!!!

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post #109 of 130
3/1/13 at 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyMac View Post


FINISH HIM!!!!!!!

I've already responded to this attempt to be overly clever. Move on.
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post #110 of 130
3/1/13 at 11:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibaldleach View Post


I don't think that preferring a more elegant work environment or liking to see people dress up to go to nice restaurants equates to judging people based on their clothes. I know some great people who are terrible dressers and/or live in jeans and a t-shirt for their entire life and stylish formal dressers who area real jerks.

Many of my good friends wear jeans to church. I don't think less of them for it, but when I look out and see a majority of people wearing jeans to something that once called for one's "Sunday best," I do wonder about our culture.

 

If it's a man, I barely notice anything besides the fact that he's fully clothed. Beyond that, I don't care. If he's someone who I don't have to interact with, then I probably won't even take the time to notice that. Again, I'm sure that some members here feel differently, but in real life, I couldn't care less about what other men wear. Women are a different story.

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post #111 of 130
3/1/13 at 11:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibaldleach View Post


I've already responded to this attempt to be overly clever. Move on.

 

What back-pedalling and double-talk approach did you use that time?

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post #112 of 130
3/1/13 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyMac View Post

What back-pedalling and double-talk approach did you use that time?

I simply explained to allysan what happens when you actually read things closely enough to appreciate certain nuances in the language, even when you are quoting a few sentences out of context.

The first sentence is qualified by use of the word "possible." The second sentence is there to compare things across industries (e.g. requiring business formal would probably be a worse idea at a California internet startup than a conservative New York law firm) rather than make an absolute statement about a particular industry. What I never said was that a particular industry would benefit in an absolute sense from a more formal dress code. I said (i) it was possible that it would have benefits and (ii) certain industries would be impacted differently from others. Neither of those premises are equivalent to saying that any particular environment would certainly benefit.

Are we done hijacking this thread yet?
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post #113 of 130
3/1/13 at 12:54pm

It's not formality that is the first issue for me, it's that people have any interest in aesthetics at all. I would rather work somewhere where people actively cultivate some kind of style (whatever that was) than which was full of slobs. Anyone who's influential (and I mean this is in the widest sense of the word) has some kind of a recognizable aesthetic. Some of my colleagues do, most don't. Dress codes in themselves are not the answer because the worst thing of all is when dress codes result in aesthetic laziness, i.e. the minimum is done to comply and it just looks terrible. Following top-down rules just because of some felt need for control does not result in learning. What we need is the empowerment of aesthetic education and development, not its constriction.

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post #114 of 130
3/1/13 at 3:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

I was having a discussion with a friend of mine about how casual America has become and the leniency towards how one dresses, especially in the workplace. The Casual nature of corporate America bothers him greatly. He claims that people work harder, feel confident, and there is some sort of referencing hard work with business formal clothing. Essentially looking professional makes one act that way and preform better. Kind of a psychology.

While, I, myself like to dress more formally than most people I couldn't care less what other people wear. Style is a hobby and interest for me, completely separate from work, however it just happens to work out in my day job. Having the guy across the desk from me wearing a suit vs. polo and chinos it doesn't affect my life at all as long as we can do business. Does a lack of formality say something about them in the workplace? Maybe. I think it depends. Perfunctory bothers me, which is how I feel most people would dress if they had to do something they didn't want to do. Also, I feel people do better work and have a better morale if they are comfortable, whether that be in a suit, or otherwise. Ultimately it is more about the image you want to project in the workplace and less about your work. Do you want to climb the ladder, or do you just want to do your job, get a paycheck and that's it? People's perception is different and it is important to be aware of that.

How about you? Do you care what people at work wear? Does it matter? Why, or why not?

When working at an office I really hated the slobby IT section types. Oh but they had to crawl under desks etc....yeah yeah...
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post #115 of 130
3/1/13 at 4:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Just a post to somewhat guide the responses: The intent of this thread isn't what you wear to work and how it compares to everybody else. Many people have hangups about dressing better than co-workers, which is a confidence conversation in its own. However, do you think everybody should be dressed up for work? How can it help/hurt a company, or a culture to have everybody dressed as opposed leniency?
Mine is a pretty straightforward example of a company needing to consider a dress code: I work in outside sales for a large ofc supply company, so I see clients daily. By choice I wear either a suit/tie, or sc/slacks/tie, and decent shoes (all AE). My peers don't seem to understand or care that seeing their own clients in ill-fitting dress shirts, pants, no tie, horrible shoes, etc gives a slightly negative impression to the client. Whether we like it or not, we're judged. We hosted a large tradeshow for clients this week, and I was shocked to see that while a few of my peers took the opportunity to dress up nicely (event was at a classy downtown hotel), many still wore their regular 'duds', yikes. So my answer is: if you are customer-facing, I feel strongly you should err on the side of well-dressed and respectful.

J
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post #116 of 130
3/1/13 at 4:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by becnal View Post

Dressing well means something, whether we admit it or not. It means we respect ourselves and care enough to present ourselves well, whether it's going to work or going shopping. When going out someplace special, we dress well also to show respect for our companion as well as the other guests present.

It takes no more "effort" to wear nice clothing than sloppy clothing. Lacing up wingtips is no more difficult than lacing up sneakers. Pulling on nice trousers is no more arduous than pulling on sweatpants.

Not dressing well tells the world the wearer is either lazy, or doesn't care. Neither is my goal. If that makes me a snob, so be it. biggrin.gif
Hear hear! Well put, becnal!
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post #117 of 130
3/1/13 at 4:40pm
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post #118 of 130
3/1/13 at 5:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by becnal View Post


Dressing well means something, whether we admit it or not. It means we respect ourselves and care enough to present ourselves well, whether it's going to work or going shopping. When going out someplace special, we dress well also to show respect for our companion as well as the other guests present.

It takes no more "effort" to wear nice clothing than sloppy clothing. Lacing up wingtips is no more difficult than lacing up sneakers. Pulling on nice trousers is no more arduous than pulling on sweatpants.

Not dressing well tells the world the wearer is either lazy, or doesn't care. Neither is my goal. If that makes me a snob, so be it. biggrin.gif

I hear you, but what does "dressing well" mean, and how do you determine whether a person has put "effort" into doing it? You can't answer either of those questions without starting with "I think." It seems like you're associating dressing "well" with wingtips and trousers and not dressing "well" with sneakers and sweatpants. That's fine, and some people will again, but it's still just an opinion. People get along just fine without wingtips and trousers. Some of them probably make better livings than a lot of us do and are more well respected.

 

How other people dress usually doesn't handicap me, so whether it's believable or not, I literally don't pay much attention to what other guys wear (outside of entertainment). It's not because I'm trying to make a point or be "Captain Nonjudgmental." It's because I just don't care about what another man is wearing. Why would I?...it's a man.

 

I do pay attention to what the attractive women around me wear, but that's more for personal stimulation than for philosophical reasons.

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post #119 of 130
3/1/13 at 7:03pm
Quote:

Originally Posted by VinnyMac View Post

what does "dressing well" mean, and how do you determine whether a person has put "effort" into doing it? You can't answer either of those questions without starting with "I think." It seems like you're associating dressing "well" with wingtips and trousers and not dressing "well" with sneakers and sweatpants. That's fine, and some people will again, but it's still just an opinion. People get along just fine without wingtips and trousers. Some of them probably make better livings than a lot of us do and are more well respected.

Doesn't address the effort aspect, but it at least provides a semi-objective approach to what "dressing well" is in a business context.

 

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post #120 of 130
3/1/13 at 9:54pm
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