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Skoaktiebolaget – Carmina, John Lobb, Enzo Bonafè, Carlos Santos, Saint Crispin’s, Gaziano & Girling, Rubinacci – Official Thread - Page 1395post #20911 of 243472/28/16 at 9:21ampost #20912 of 243472/28/16 at 12:27pmpost #20913 of 243472/28/16 at 12:49pmThread StarterQuote:Originally Posted by razl
Patrick - without wanting to beat up on either brand, could you explain the differences between, say, the Carlos Santos Algarve Wingtip and Carmina's Classic Wingtip* that explain the price difference? Clearly the Santos is a fetching shoe at a great price, but what am I giving up/losing from the Carmina?
Not trying to nitpick, but since I can't examine both in person - and I'm not sure I'm knowledgeable enough discern even if I could - it's helpful to get your thoughts on what/why someone might pick one over the other assuming price and fit aren't an issue.
(* those were the two shoes I thought were close enough to compare side-by-side, if you think there's a better pair for comparison please use those).
There are two things contributing to our Carlos Santos Goodyear welted shoes being less expensive. First of all the Carlos Santos shoes are made with an open channel. Carmina are closed (at least the leather soled ones). It's an aesthetic thing more than anything else if you ask me, I posted a link from the ShoeSnob on the topic a while back. Carlos Santos offers a closed channel for leather soled shoes but it would be at the exact price point of our Carmina shoes so it does not serve a purpose in our line up TBH.
Carlos Santos has a very effective production line, and the factory is about twice the size of Carmina. One of the main reasons Carlos Santos is so effective is that they do not offer a MTO program. You can't even begin to imagine the kind of hick ups these single MTOs cause in a normal shoe factory. Instead they have the Patina Program, which is of course more limited but is still very nice given the very low surcharge involved (~50 USD).
Both are great value makers, and both have their charm, and brings different things to the table.
Edited by Leaves - 2/29/16 at 12:32ampost #20914 of 243472/28/16 at 1:18pmpost #20915 of 243472/28/16 at 1:28pm
Told myself I didn't need any more shoes once my Carmina GMTO split toe arrives next month, but then again, I log into SF daily so we knew where that was going. The Carlos Santos Algarve will probably be my primary 2016 shoe purchase. Unfortunately, if I like it, it'll take all my self control not to pick up the CS derby in at least one patina.post #20916 of 243472/28/16 at 1:31pmQuote:Originally Posted by Leaves
It's a completely different product. It would not be fair to compare. Bonafè produces about 8000 pairs a year and Carmina 40000. C&J produces probably triple of what Carmina makes (I'm not sure).
Bonafè is a hand welted product. Carmina and Crockett & Jones are both machine Goodyear welted. There are plenty of comparisons between these two ways of producing shoes if you do a forum search.
The finish of Bonafè shoes is also superior to Carmina , but Bonafè is also a product that is 25% more expensive. So it's not fair to any of these makers to do a "comparison" based on this.
In short: Bonafè is a better product than Carmina IMO but it should be, given the price difference.
1) So you are saying that CS produces an avg of 80.000 pairs a year?
2) Also, how is the leather quality and finish between CS and Carmina?post #20917 of 243472/28/16 at 1:52pmpost #20918 of 243472/28/16 at 2:21pmpost #20919 of 243472/28/16 at 2:50pmpost #20920 of 243472/29/16 at 8:38amQuote:
Would be hard to judge across the board no? regardless, if you have two comparable models in mind, it's something you can easily email and ask the gents at skoak before buying.post #20921 of 243472/29/16 at 9:00amSorrQuote:Sorry to tell you,but The Best way to answer to your questions on shoes/brands comparative is to discover it by yourself. Most of the times answer are very subjective
Edited by Zapasman - 2/29/16 at 9:22ampost #20922 of 243472/29/16 at 9:25amQuote:How many times have people raised questions comparing makers with each other on style forum . Carlos Santos is unknown for many of us. I do have an interest in them, but contemplating, because lack of info and personal experience of them. These were just simple questions asked in my opinion.
Edited by vmss - 2/29/16 at 4:26pmpost #20923 of 243472/29/16 at 9:27ampost #20924 of 243472/29/16 at 11:13amQuote:Originally Posted by vmss
How many times have people raised question comparing makers to each other on style forum . Carlos Santos is unknown for many of us. I do have an interest in them, but contemplating because lack of info and personal experience of them. These were just simple questions raised in my opinion.
indeed, and I didn't mean to offend, but won't you get a more useful answer with actual models/leathers in mind?
every maker uses many leather sources so leather quality across makers is hardly going to be uniform when comparing makers with pretty close price points (adjusting for the sole channel differences)
Edited by sleepyinsanfran - 2/29/16 at 11:37ampost #20925 of 243472/29/16 at 11:50am
True. And lord knows I've been burned. But at the end of the day, there's no way round it if the goal is find the shoe that works best for you. Comparison discussions, shooting ideas around, sizing advice, quality recommendations, all the good stuff that happens on SF - they'll get you some way, but no-one knows the full story of whether a shoe will work until they've splashed the cash and worn them for a while.
Hope you get enough answers to figure out if you're comfortable taking a leap in the dark with CS.
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