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Skoaktiebolaget - Carmina, Bonafè, Carlos Santos, Saint Crispin's, Gaziano & Girling - Official Affiliate Thread - Page 1085

post #16261 of 23720
Thread Starter 
@RogerP @dddrees I also believe it's more or less impossible to compare and define the best maker, however, I will have to go against Roger on the statement that Edward Green and Gaziano & Girling are equal (at least that's how I interpret your post). I would not call G&G superior to EG, that would be an exaggeration. But it is my professional opinion though that the price difference between the two brands, where G&G is slightly more expensive, is justified. First of all I hold the finish of G&G to be a hair better and more consistent. Also, they have a fiddle waist as a standard feature while this is something you'd have to go Top Drawer to get from EG. There are also some other small details where I find G&G has an advantage. Also, and this is something that is very difficult for someone who is not in the business to have knowledge of, is that G&G has some really skilled craftsmen/-women working in their workshop, they have been able to hand pick some of the best people in Northamptonshire. They also have a pretty lean organization, the number of administrative staff at G&G is limited, so they can keep their costs (and thus wholesale price I would believe) down. Other factories I've visited seem to have quite a large administrative department.
post #16262 of 23720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaves View Post

@RogerP @dddrees I also believe it's more or less impossible to compare and define the best maker, however, I will have to go against Roger on the statement that Edward Green and Gaziano & Girling are equal (at least that's how I interpret your post). I would not call G&G superior to EG, that would be an exaggeration. But it is my professional opinion though that the price difference between the two brands, where G&G is slightly more expensive, is justified. First of all I hold the finish of G&G to be a hair better and more consistent. Also, they have a fiddle waist as a standard feature while this is something you'd have to go Top Drawer to get from EG. There are also some other small details where I find G&G has an advantage. Also, and this is something that is very difficult for someone who is not in the business to have knowledge of, is that G&G has some really skilled craftsmen/-women working in their workshop, they have been able to hand pick some of the best people in Northamptonshire. They also have a pretty lean organization, the number of administrative staff at G&G is limited, so they can keep their costs (and thus wholesale price I would believe) down. Other factories I've visited seem to have quite a large administrative department.

Definitely agree in terms of price difference and waist. I usually prefer dainite / double leather but order single leather soles for G&G waist.

Will also say emailing G&G (Dean, not store email which ime has been not pleasant) will get you answers to your question fast. EG doesn't bother to respond to most questions I've asked.
post #16263 of 23720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaves View Post

..... First of all I hold the finish of G&G to be a hair better and more consistent. Also, they have a fiddle waist as a standard feature while this is something you'd have to go Top Drawer to get from EG. There are also some other small details where I find G&G has an advantage. Also, and this is something that is very difficult for someone who is not in the business to have knowledge of, is that G&G has some really skilled craftsmen/-women working in their workshop, they have been able to hand pick some of the best people in Northamptonshire. They also have a pretty lean organization, the number of administrative staff at G&G is limited, so they can keep their costs (and thus wholesale price I would believe) down. Other factories I've visited seem to have quite a large administrative department.

 

Clearly your exposure to the product of both brands far exceeds my own, but I haven't been able to discern the hair difference of which you speak in terms of finish.

 

No two brands will ever be precisely equal.  My point was that these two are as closely matched as two brands can get.  Allowing that you find small advantages to G&G, are there two other brands that you feel sit more closely together - i.e, more similar in overall quality and value - than these two?

post #16264 of 23720
My personal in-store experience between the two shops in London was night and day difference: G&G was classy and accommodating, EG treated me like a door to door vacuum salesman. It was so comical that another fellow customer looked at us and shrugged, as if to say "No idea what's going on here, sorry!" That just turned me off from EG.

Galway is in a class of its own, I'll agree with that. I love mine.

I'm glad the bigger names are shuffling around policies and pricing lists. It gives the smaller names a chance to get noticed. Natural Law and all that good stuff. It's certainly pushed me to look at StC more closely.
post #16265 of 23720
I don't think anyone argued that they were not close. I think we all agreed that they are so close that fit and personal taste outweigh all. It's just that differences exist but they are small enough that you can overlook them. Especially if you always buy danite and shine and polish your shoes with different creams out of the box.
post #16266 of 23720
This^
post #16267 of 23720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironist View Post

I feel like just the fact that they aren't increasing the price and that they still have GMTO make them better. That should be EOD. Both are good but GG is more consumer friendly at least and that means better value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickrut View Post

Agree. Currently my favorite brand but StC could enter the fray soon. I actually think Decos are a great value at their current cost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothie1 View Post

I want to be clear, EG is known for its quirks and hiccups, as well as making awesome shoes. They have become far less rigid over time and more commercial and responsive to customer requests and market forces

But the company does make some choices and decisions that drive some customers and potential customers nuts at times. Even if it's only related to what shoes are "in stock" at a particular time or in a particular year.

Both G&G plus St. c are more open for customers due to their MTO polices. EG makes great shoes but takes longer and has been more rigid in terms of their order policies. At least they have tried to make last and color options to help compete, but EG is know for the classic well made shoes. If you want more flashy or more order options then get St. c or G&G.

They are all competitors for each other due to being top shoes but they each have such differences that you can have them all if you find a last and style that works for you in each. I personally gravitate to certain styles/ last shapes, and colors for each brand so I can have variety based on brand. When we have as many options as are available and you can find a good fit, why not try them all out.
Edited by mw313 - 8/16/15 at 10:49am
post #16268 of 23720
Quote:
Originally Posted by dddrees View Post

I don't really see it necessary to define the best. Because like I said before best with these four often depends more as to what works best for you. However I do think its a good discussion to have with regards to comparing their various strengths and weaknesses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bespoken pa View Post

Agreed ddd, I think it is important to remember we are talking about fractional differences. Talking about the stregths and weaknesses is what the theeads are all about! Gathering as much insight as possible assists one another with future purchases.

I agree all are great but each has strengths and weaknesses. Then their is the customers subjective part in aesthetics and working environment. Some people can not pull off G&G just like how some don't want something as classic as EG.

Since they all are of equivalent levels in the end, the most important part should be fit and look on the actual customer. If that isn't there what matters anyway?Then you should just get AE. Haha
post #16269 of 23720
Quote:
Originally Posted by mw313 View Post



Both G&G plus St. c are more open for customers die to their MTO polices. EG makes great shoes but takes longer and has been more rigid in terms of their order policies. At least they have tried to make last and color options to help compete but EG is know for the classic well made shoes. If you want more flashy or more order options then get St. c or G&G.

They are all competitors for each other die to being top shoes bit they each have such differences that you can have them all if you find a last and style that works for you in each. I personally gravitate to certain styles/ last shapes, and colors for each brand so I can have variety based on brand. When we have as many options as are available and you can find a good fit, why not try them all out.
Amen to that brother very well said smile.gif
post #16270 of 23720

I was able to pass by Stockholm for a day and a half, and after venturing the Old Town for a bit, I decided to swing by the shop. It was a Sunday and I knew it would be closed, but decided to take an obligatory picture anyways.

 

I was really hoping to get sized for some Carminas, but, alas, my schedule couldn't allow it. I, however, will be placing an online order (only worried about the sizing). But an online order could work out to be even more convenient as I would not have to file for a VAT refund and carry it all the way back home.

 

post #16271 of 23720
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevent View Post

Definitely agree in terms of price difference and waist. I usually prefer dainite / double leather but order single leather soles for G&G waist.

Will also say emailing G&G (Dean, not store email which ime has been not pleasant) will get you answers to your question fast. EG doesn't bother to respond to most questions I've asked.

Dean is a pleasure to deal with and very responsive. As a retailer this is extremely valuable. If you have a client that wants a quote on an exotic or an expected delivery date for a MTO you want an answer quickly, not wait for weeks for an answer; this is a nightmare for a retailer with ambitions to provide a high level of customer service.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post

Clearly your exposure to the product of both brands far exceeds my own, but I haven't been able to discern the hair difference of which you speak in terms of finish.

No two brands will ever be precisely equal.  My point was that these two are as closely matched as two brands can get.  Allowing that you find small advantages to G&G, are there two other brands that you feel sit more closely together - i.e, more similar in overall quality and value - than these two?

Lets just say that I personally believe that the price difference is understandable and although the prices are currently quite closely matched, the gap should probably be greater if you look at finish, craftsmanship and consistency. What really makes Edward Green gain on G&G though are their iconic styles like Dover and Galway to name a few. These are extraordinar and no one can take that away from them.
post #16272 of 23720
Very nice klp2332 Like the pic.
post #16273 of 23720
Thread Starter 
@klp2332 Hope you enjoyed your stay! Sorry we could not be there but on Sundays we rest. Kinda. But I believe there might have been other things catching your attention such a fine and sunny day though. smile.gif
post #16274 of 23720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaves View Post

@klp2332 Hope you enjoyed your stay! Sorry we could not be there but on Sundays we rest. Kinda. But I believe there might have been other things catching your attention such a fine and sunny day though. smile.gif

 

@Leaves No problem, I had a very lovely time. And since I had heard many good things about your store, I had to come see it for myself. Anyways, I literally just placed my first order with you -- here's hoping they will fit.

post #16275 of 23720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaves View Post

Dean is a pleasure to deal with and very responsive. As a retailer this is extremely valuable. If you have a client that wants a quote on an exotic or an expected delivery date for a MTO you want an answer quickly, not wait for weeks for an answer; this is a nightmare for a retailer with ambitions to provide a high level of customer service.
Lets just say that I personally believe that the price difference is understandable and although the prices are currently quite closely matched, the gap should probably be greater if you look at finish, craftsmanship and consistency. What really makes Edward Green gain on G&G though are their iconic styles like Dover and Galway to name a few. These are extraordinar and no one can take that away from them.

In regards to the delivery of my Falkirks and their status this was extremely frustrating for me. It wasn't until after the second rejection that Gabriel was able to provide an estimate with regards to when they might be ready. Until this this point the only thing he could tell me was that they were being worked on. Problems and delays can occur but it would certainly be better if they were a bit more responsive to their clients.
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