John Lobb Appreciation Thread

Barros Japan Reissue 2012

William Boot, Norwegian Welt

Is that MTO or bespoke? Didn't know JL RTW does norwegian sewn/welt shoes...

Many great shoes in this thread, but I've come to a conclusion, after the world champion of ugliness (bontoni triple monk), the only thing uglier than a double monk shoe, is a double monk chukka boot, wow, not even lobb can pull that off.



chogall said:

Is that MTO or bespoke?  Didn't know JL RTW does norwegian sewn/welt shoes...

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I think they are bespoke, and if it is, probably cost an upward of $8000 (or above)

Hey DWF, I raised a question in the Alden thread but nobody really knew the answer. Do you know much about why, when suede is used, generally only calf suede is used? I'd have to believe that there are stronger skins out there that would provide a longer lasting life than calfskin. Any help would be appreciated, fine sir.

Bump for thread subscription.



JermynStreet said:

Hey DWF, I raised a question in the Alden thread but nobody really knew the answer. Do you know much about why, when suede is used, generally only calf suede is used? I'd have to believe that there are stronger skins out there that would provide a longer lasting life than calfskin. Any help would be appreciated, fine sir.

Click to expand...

I doubt that there are many leathers better suited for suede than calf. Maybe horse but other than that, none that I know of. The fibers in a young animal, such as a calf, are closer together and shorter than on an older animal. This applies across the board, whether it be calf or cow, kid or goat, alligator or dinosaur.

IMO, cow is too old and too coarse to make a good suede.

Kid and goat is too delicate although sueded womens shoes are made of kid) .

No other leathers (except maybe horse as prev. mentioned) are fine enough to be a suitable suede.

But the main issue...and I wonder if this is just a matter of terminology...is that usually, at least lately, when a suede is marketed as "calf suede" it is actually a full grain calf skin that has been finished for use with the flesh side out, but with the grain side still intact. That last bit is the important part.

Most "suedes" in commercial use...esp. on shoes in the sub $1000.00 range...are actually "splits" from cow hides. The flesh is coarser, but more importantly, the grain side is missing. So all the strength in the hide is also missing.

It is my understanding that sometimes a tanner/currier can get two splits and a top grain off of one hide. The top grain is relatively premium...the splits are borderline offal.

I've avoided making suede shoes for many years because here in the US real calf suede (with the grain intact) is not readily available, only splits. Although I have turned high end French calf flesh side out. And if I select and cut the hide carefully, it makes a very successful suede.

Happily, I recently found a source in England for bona fide grain suede.



DWFII said:

I doubt that there are many leathers better suited for suede than calf. Maybe horse but other than that, none that I know of. The fibers in a young animal, such as a calf, are closer together and shorter than on an older animal. This applies across the board, whether it be calf or cow, kid or goat, alligator or dinosaur.

IMO, cow is too old and too coarse to make a good suede.

Kid and goat is too delicate although sueded womens shoes are made of kid) .

No other leathers (except maybe horse as prev. mentioned) are fine enough to be a suitable suede.

But the main issue...and I wonder if this is just a matter of terminology...is that usually, at least lately, when a suede is marketed as "calf suede" it is actually a full grain calf skin that has been finished for use with the flesh side out, but with the grain side still intact. That last bit is the important part.

Most "suedes" in commercial use...esp. on shoes in the sub $1000.00 range...are actually "splits" from cow hides. The flesh is coarser, but more importantly, the grain side is missing. So all the strength in the hide is also missing.

It is my understanding that sometimes a tanner/currier can get two splits and a top grain off of one hide. The top grain is relatively premium...the splits are borderline offal.

I've avoided making suede shoes for many years because here in the US real calf suede (with the grain intact) is not readily available, only splits. Although I have turned high end French calf flesh side out. And if I select and cut the hide carefully, it makes a very successful suede.

Happily, I recently found a source in England for bona fide grain suede.

Click to expand...

You are a tome of knowledge. Thank you very much for the info. Very cool/ good info. I really am not a fan of suede but I thought this could be an interesting discussion. Closer to the point of this thread-do you know if Rtw Lobb uses full grain suede or not? Any idea on Alden? Thanks again, sir.



JermynStreet said:

You are a tome of knowledge. Thank you very much for the info. Very cool/ good info. I really am not a fan of suede but I thought this could be an interesting discussion. Closer to the point of this thread-do you know if Rtw Lobb uses full grain suede or not? Any idea on Alden? Thanks again, sir.

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No problem.

No idea.

DWFII said:

I doubt that there are many leathers better suited for suede than calf. Maybe horse but other than that, none that I know of. The fibers in a young animal, such as a calf, are closer together and shorter than on an older animal. This applies across the board, whether it be calf or cow, kid or goat, alligator or dinosaur.

IMO, cow is too old and too coarse to make a good suede.

Kid and goat is too delicate although sueded womens shoes are made of kid) .

No other leathers (except maybe horse as prev. mentioned) are fine enough to be a suitable suede.

But the main issue...and I wonder if this is just a matter of terminology...is that usually, at least lately, when a suede is marketed as "calf suede" it is actually a full grain calf skin that has been finished for use with the flesh side out, but with the grain side still intact. That last bit is the important part.

Most "suedes" in commercial use...esp. on shoes in the sub $1000.00 range...are actually "splits" from cow hides. The flesh is coarser, but more importantly, the grain side is missing. So all the strength in the hide is also missing.

It is my understanding that sometimes a tanner/currier can get two splits and a top grain off of one hide. The top grain is relatively premium...the splits are borderline offal.

I've avoided making suede shoes for many years because here in the US real calf suede (with the grain intact) is not readily available, only splits. Although I have turned high end French calf flesh side out. And if I select and cut the hide carefully, it makes a very successful suede.

Happily, I recently found a source in England for bona fide grain suede.

Click to expand...

Would this be J.R TUSTING & CO.LTD, OLNEY, THE TANNERY WAREHOUSE



Ilovelobbs said:

Would this be J.R TUSTING & CO.LTD, OLNEY, THE TANNERY WAREHOUSE

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No, I'm in the US, I don't know English sources that well, but from what I do know Tusting makes handbags and accessories and doesn't wholesale leather.

A.A. Crack is the outfit I was talking about.



DWFII said:

No, I'm in the US, I don't know English sources that well......A.A. Crack is the outfit I was talking about.

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The prime suede tannery in England (possibly in the world) is Charles F Stead in Leeds

http://www.cfstead.com/index2.htm

The Stead tannery is owned by the Crack family: while the father Ernest and the older sons Douglas and Peter are running the tannery, the two younger sons Alan and Anthony did set-up A&A Crack (leather merchants in Northampton) some 25 years ago.

http://www.aacrack.co.uk/default.asp?contentID=1

Needless to say, the suede that Crack sells comes from Stead.

bengal-stripe said:

The prime suede tannery in England (possibly in the world) is Charles F Stead in Leeds

http://www.cfstead.com/index2.htm

The Stead tannery is owned by the Crack family: while the father Ernest and the older sons Douglas and Peter are running the tannery, the two younger sons Alan and Anthony did set-up A&A Crack (leather merchants in Northampton) some 25 years ago.

http://www.aacrack.co.uk/default.asp?contentID=1

Needless to say, the suede that Crack sells comes from Stead.

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Thank you for this bengal - I am aware Tusting also trade in leather.

how fitting that the company that supplies the raw material for our addiction is named Crack