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John Lobb Appreciation Thread - Page 11

post #151 of 1781
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRoi View Post

how fitting that the company that supplies the raw material for our addiction is named Crack

 

I know a sell-side research guy with last name of Crook.  So it does happen.

post #152 of 1781

DWF-any insight on how seamless wholecuts are made? Any pictures of Lobb's wholecuts that you know of or can post?

post #153 of 1781
Quote:
Originally Posted by JermynStreet View Post

DWF-any insight on how seamless wholecuts are made? Any pictures of Lobb's wholecuts that you know of or can post?

Lots of effort and a large piece of leather.

It's essentially a problem in blocking...which most shoemakers don't do a lot of...or lasting. But I am somewhat well known for doing full wellingtons (with real bona fide shoe leather not garment or upholstery leather) and the whole concept sparked my imagination some time back.

The leather in the following photo is a veg retan which means that it is a little firmer and a little less stretchy than a chrome tan (what most dress shoes are made of today).



From here it's simply cut the topline and facings edge, bind or bead, line and last.

The only seam would be the inseam.
post #154 of 1781
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


Lots of effort and a large piece of leather.

It's essentially a problem in blocking...which most shoemakers don't do a lot of...or lasting. But I am somewhat well known for doing full wellingtons (with real bona fide shoe leather not garment or upholstery leather) and the whole concept sparked my imagination some time back.

The leather in the following photo is a veg retan which means that it is a little firmer and a little less stretchy than a chrome tan (what most dress shoes are made of today).



From here it's simply cut the topline and facings edge, bind or bead, line and last.

The only seam would be the inseam.

DWFII - more pictures and running commentary would be much appreciated...

 

Thank you.

post #155 of 1781
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Lots of effort and a large piece of leather.

Here in a photo-essay is Daniel (“The talented Mr W.”) of Gaziano-Girlling, showing in detail how a seamless shoe is blocked/lasted:

http://therakeonline.com/atelier-luxury-designer-brands-artisans/gaziano-girling-bespoke-4-the-unique-lasting-process/

While the front of the seamless shoe is not different to any other shoe, the difficulty is in the heel area which, initially, has huge folds of excess leather.



These folds have to be re-distributed several times into smaller and smaller folds until the leather, once it has dried, lies tightly over the heel,.


Here are all the parts of the photo-essay, showing the work on this particular pair from initial consultation to finished product:

http://therakeonline.com/atelier-luxury-designer-brands-artisans/gaziano-girling-1-designing-the-shoe/

http://therakeonline.com/atelier-luxury-designer-brands-artisans/gaziano-girling-bespoke-2-the-measuring/

http://therakeonline.com/atelier-luxury-designer-brands-artisans/gaziano-girling-bespoke-3-the-making-process/

http://therakeonline.com/atelier-luxury-designer-brands-artisans/gaziano-girling-bespoke-4-the-unique-lasting-process/

http://therakeonline.com/atelier-luxury-designer-brands-artisans/gaziano-girling-bespoke-5-the-fitting/

http://therakeonline.com/atelier-luxury-designer-brands-artisans/final-gaziano-girling-slip-on-shoes/
post #156 of 1781
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post

Here in a photo-essay is Daniel (“The talented Mr W.”) of Gaziano-Girlling, showing in detail how a seamless shoe is blocked/lasted:

http://therakeonline.com/atelier-luxury-designer-brands-artisans/gaziano-girling-bespoke-4-the-unique-lasting-process/

While the front of the seamless shoe is not different to any other shoe, the difficulty is in the heel area which, initially, has huge folds of excess leather.

These folds have to be re-distributed several times into smaller and smaller folds until the leather, once it has dried, lies tightly over the heel,.


That's a great photo essay. I had not seen that before. Looks like Russia Calf (hatch grain). I think I'll post that link on the CC.

Ilovelobbs,

No better commentary, photos or insight than the Rake article. I don't do anything different.

BTW, the shoes in the Rake article are being prepared for a hand-sewn inseam.
post #157 of 1781
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Looks like Russia Calf (hatch grain).

It is the (modern) "Hatch grain Calf". which blocks very nicely. I have a pair of whole-cut (but not seamless) Chelsea boots in the stuff and I saw how smoothly it went onto the blocking board.

I doubt the (historical) Metta Caterina leather can be blocked; it is pretty stiff and might tear easily.
post #158 of 1781
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post

Here in a photo-essay is Daniel (“The talented Mr W.”) of Gaziano-Girlling, showing in detail how a seamless shoe is blocked/lasted:

http://therakeonline.com/atelier-luxury-designer-brands-artisans/gaziano-girling-bespoke-4-the-unique-lasting-process/

While the front of the seamless shoe is not different to any other shoe, the difficulty is in the heel area which, initially, has huge folds of excess leather.



These folds have to be re-distributed several times into smaller and smaller folds until the leather, once it has dried, lies tightly over the heel,.


Here are all the parts of the photo-essay, showing the work on this particular pair from initial consultation to finished product:

http://therakeonline.com/atelier-luxury-designer-brands-artisans/gaziano-girling-1-designing-the-shoe/

http://therakeonline.com/atelier-luxury-designer-brands-artisans/gaziano-girling-bespoke-2-the-measuring/

http://therakeonline.com/atelier-luxury-designer-brands-artisans/gaziano-girling-bespoke-3-the-making-process/

http://therakeonline.com/atelier-luxury-designer-brands-artisans/gaziano-girling-bespoke-4-the-unique-lasting-process/

http://therakeonline.com/atelier-luxury-designer-brands-artisans/gaziano-girling-bespoke-5-the-fitting/

http://therakeonline.com/atelier-luxury-designer-brands-artisans/final-gaziano-girling-slip-on-shoes/

Excellent resource. Thank you again, DWF and Bengal!!!
post #159 of 1781
Quote:
Originally Posted by JermynStreet View Post

Excellent resource. Thank you again, DWF and Bengal!!!

You're welcome.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming (back on topic) .satisfied.gif
post #160 of 1781

The last page has been a great diversion, we can keep going with that!

post #161 of 1781
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by gegarrenton View Post


Pretty simple. This thread is about Lobb appreciation. There are a jillion other threads discussing the merits of gemming, there is absolutely no reason to turn this thread into yet another quagmire about it and drown out all the Lobb stuff. Period.

You mean "pull your head out of the sand."

I repeat...for those who didn't catch it first time around...I didn't raise the issue, I just answered the questions that were posed.

Now if you can get everyone in this thread to talk about shines and lines, and the merits of boxes, there'd be no need to worry. Nothing of substance would crop up and you could go back to cooing over your shoes.

And BTW...with respect to Lobbs...I regard John Lobb, St. James St. as one of, if not the premium maker of men's dress shoes in the world. And John Hunter Lobb--the president of Lobbs on St James--has said "we have turned our backs to the machine."

I believe that includes Goodyear machines.

And, AFAIK, if you're not talking about Lobbs on St. James, you're talking about Hermes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JermynStreet View Post

You are a tome of knowledge. Thank you very much for the info. Very cool/ good info. I really am not a fan of suede but I thought this could be an interesting discussion. Closer to the point of this thread-do you know if Rtw Lobb uses full grain suede or not? Any idea on Alden? Thanks again, sir.

No problem.

No idea.

Medium brown repello calf brogue "single in the waist" oxford caps JL bespoke St. James's bigstar[1].gif









photos: Journal of Style
Edited by Butler - 3/26/13 at 1:40pm
post #162 of 1781

This may be a good place to pose a question about the construction of John Lobb's RTW shoes.  I am pasting a video below showing the cork bottom filling process of a pair of Lobbs.  Watch the video and you will see that they seem to put an enormous amount of cork in the shoe, leaving a mound  that is nowhere near flush with the welting as you see with all other goodyear welted shoes.  Am I missing something, or do Lobbs somehow have a thicker cork layer? 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNqu1kQZ0Mc&feature=bf_prev&list=UUN1wOO2DFx9p_DC3VD2hviQ

post #163 of 1781
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyWellSpent View Post

This may be a good place to pose a question about the construction of John Lobb's RTW shoes. I am pasting a video below showing the cork bottom filling process of a pair of Lobbs. Watch the video and you will see that they seem to put an enormous amount of cork in the shoe, leaving a mound that is nowhere near flush with the welting as you see with all other goodyear welted shoes. Am I missing something, or do Lobbs somehow have a thicker cork layer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNqu1kQZ0Mc&feature=bf_prev&list=UUN1wOO2DFx9p_DC3VD2hviQ

The shoes are Goodyear welted with gemming. They have to fill that cavity to prevent the gemming from collapsing. Are they using more cork than other GY makers? I doubt it. They are anticipating some compression and collapse of the cork as the solvent evaporates and pressure is brought to bear by wearing. The cork is always going to be fugitive to one degree or the other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gegarrenton View Post

The last page has been a great diversion, we can keep going with that!

It's all a great...and interesting and even enlightening...diversion if you have an open mind about these things. Conversation never follows a straight path.
post #164 of 1781
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


The shoes are Goodyear welted with gemming. They have to fill that cavity to prevent the gemming from collapsing. Are they using more cork than other GY makers? I doubt it. They are anticipating some compression and collapse of the cork as the solvent evaporates and pressure is brought to bear by wearing. The cork is always going to be fugitive to one degree or the other.
It's all a great...and interesting and even enlightening...diversion if you have an open mind about these things. Conversation never follows a straight path.

 

Thanks for the response DW!  Yeah, the process is quite clear to me.  If you compare the video of Lobb's bottom filling to the same process used by any other shoe company using Goodyear-welting, Lobb seems to be using at least twice the amount of cork.  Every other video I can find shows the cork being flush with the welt, which is logical.  This video of Lobb's is showing the cork piled significantly higher than the welt, which seemingly would prevent the sole from being easily stitched on. 

post #165 of 1781
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butler View Post


Medium brown repello calf brogue "single in the waist" oxford caps JL bespoke St. James's bigstar[1].gif
Beautiful shoes... at that level, you can't expect anything less I guess.

DWFII, quick question about gemmed shoes: should the adhesive fail, but the shoes are sent to the original manufacturer and resoled using the original last, I assume this will help maintain the shape/fit? Would the manufacturer also be able to "re-gem" or stick it back on?
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