or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › John Lobb Appreciation Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

John Lobb Appreciation Thread - Page 10

post #136 of 1348
Barros Japan Reissue 2012



post #137 of 1348
William Boot, Norwegian Welt

post #138 of 1348

Is that MTO or bespoke?  Didn't know JL RTW does norwegian sewn/welt shoes...

post #139 of 1348
Many great shoes in this thread, but I've come to a conclusion, after the world champion of ugliness (bontoni triple monk), the only thing uglier than a double monk shoe, is a double monk chukka boot, wow, not even lobb can pull that off.
post #140 of 1348
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

Is that MTO or bespoke?  Didn't know JL RTW does norwegian sewn/welt shoes...

I think they are bespoke, and if it is, probably cost an upward of $8000 (or above)
post #141 of 1348

Hey DWF, I raised a question in the Alden thread but nobody really knew the answer. Do you know much about why, when suede is used, generally only calf suede is used? I'd have to believe that there are stronger skins out there that would provide a longer lasting life than calfskin. Any help would be appreciated, fine sir.

post #142 of 1348
Bump for thread subscription.
post #143 of 1348
Quote:
Originally Posted by JermynStreet View Post

Hey DWF, I raised a question in the Alden thread but nobody really knew the answer. Do you know much about why, when suede is used, generally only calf suede is used? I'd have to believe that there are stronger skins out there that would provide a longer lasting life than calfskin. Any help would be appreciated, fine sir.

I doubt that there are many leathers better suited for suede than calf. Maybe horse but other than that, none that I know of. The fibers in a young animal, such as a calf, are closer together and shorter than on an older animal. This applies across the board, whether it be calf or cow, kid or goat, alligator or dinosaur.

IMO, cow is too old and too coarse to make a good suede.

Kid and goat is too delicate although sueded womens shoes are made of kid) .

No other leathers (except maybe horse as prev. mentioned) are fine enough to be a suitable suede.

But the main issue...and I wonder if this is just a matter of terminology...is that usually, at least lately, when a suede is marketed as "calf suede" it is actually a full grain calf skin that has been finished for use with the flesh side out, but with the grain side still intact. That last bit is the important part.

Most "suedes" in commercial use...esp. on shoes in the sub $1000.00 range...are actually "splits" from cow hides. The flesh is coarser, but more importantly, the grain side is missing. So all the strength in the hide is also missing.

It is my understanding that sometimes a tanner/currier can get two splits and a top grain off of one hide. The top grain is relatively premium...the splits are borderline offal.

I've avoided making suede shoes for many years because here in the US real calf suede (with the grain intact) is not readily available, only splits. Although I have turned high end French calf flesh side out. And if I select and cut the hide carefully, it makes a very successful suede.

Happily, I recently found a source in England for bona fide grain suede.
post #144 of 1348
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

I doubt that there are many leathers better suited for suede than calf. Maybe horse but other than that, none that I know of. The fibers in a young animal, such as a calf, are closer together and shorter than on an older animal. This applies across the board, whether it be calf or cow, kid or goat, alligator or dinosaur.

IMO, cow is too old and too coarse to make a good suede.

Kid and goat is too delicate although sueded womens shoes are made of kid) .

No other leathers (except maybe horse as prev. mentioned) are fine enough to be a suitable suede.

But the main issue...and I wonder if this is just a matter of terminology...is that usually, at least lately, when a suede is marketed as "calf suede" it is actually a full grain calf skin that has been finished for use with the flesh side out, but with the grain side still intact. That last bit is the important part.

Most "suedes" in commercial use...esp. on shoes in the sub $1000.00 range...are actually "splits" from cow hides. The flesh is coarser, but more importantly, the grain side is missing. So all the strength in the hide is also missing.

It is my understanding that sometimes a tanner/currier can get two splits and a top grain off of one hide. The top grain is relatively premium...the splits are borderline offal.

I've avoided making suede shoes for many years because here in the US real calf suede (with the grain intact) is not readily available, only splits. Although I have turned high end French calf flesh side out. And if I select and cut the hide carefully, it makes a very successful suede.

Happily, I recently found a source in England for bona fide grain suede.

You are a tome of knowledge. Thank you very much for the info. Very cool/ good info. I really am not a fan of suede but I thought this could be an interesting discussion. Closer to the point of this thread-do you know if Rtw Lobb uses full grain suede or not? Any idea on Alden? Thanks again, sir.
post #145 of 1348
Quote:
Originally Posted by JermynStreet View Post

You are a tome of knowledge. Thank you very much for the info. Very cool/ good info. I really am not a fan of suede but I thought this could be an interesting discussion. Closer to the point of this thread-do you know if Rtw Lobb uses full grain suede or not? Any idea on Alden? Thanks again, sir.

No problem.

No idea.
post #146 of 1348
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


I doubt that there are many leathers better suited for suede than calf. Maybe horse but other than that, none that I know of. The fibers in a young animal, such as a calf, are closer together and shorter than on an older animal. This applies across the board, whether it be calf or cow, kid or goat, alligator or dinosaur.

IMO, cow is too old and too coarse to make a good suede.

Kid and goat is too delicate although sueded womens shoes are made of kid) .

No other leathers (except maybe horse as prev. mentioned) are fine enough to be a suitable suede.

But the main issue...and I wonder if this is just a matter of terminology...is that usually, at least lately, when a suede is marketed as "calf suede" it is actually a full grain calf skin that has been finished for use with the flesh side out, but with the grain side still intact. That last bit is the important part.

Most "suedes" in commercial use...esp. on shoes in the sub $1000.00 range...are actually "splits" from cow hides. The flesh is coarser, but more importantly, the grain side is missing. So all the strength in the hide is also missing.

It is my understanding that sometimes a tanner/currier can get two splits and a top grain off of one hide. The top grain is relatively premium...the splits are borderline offal.

I've avoided making suede shoes for many years because here in the US real calf suede (with the grain intact) is not readily available, only splits. Although I have turned high end French calf flesh side out. And if I select and cut the hide carefully, it makes a very successful suede.

Happily, I recently found a source in England for bona fide grain suede.


Would this be J.R TUSTING & CO.LTD, OLNEY, THE TANNERY WAREHOUSE

post #147 of 1348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovelobbs View Post


Would this be J.R TUSTING & CO.LTD, OLNEY, THE TANNERY WAREHOUSE

No, I'm in the US, I don't know English sources that well, but from what I do know Tusting makes handbags and accessories and doesn't wholesale leather.

A.A. Crack is the outfit I was talking about.
post #148 of 1348
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

No, I'm in the US, I don't know English sources that well......A.A. Crack is the outfit I was talking about.

The prime suede tannery in England (possibly in the world) is Charles F Stead in Leeds

http://www.cfstead.com/index2.htm

The Stead tannery is owned by the Crack family: while the father Ernest and the older sons Douglas and Peter are running the tannery, the two younger sons Alan and Anthony did set-up A&A Crack (leather merchants in Northampton) some 25 years ago.

http://www.aacrack.co.uk/default.asp?contentID=1

Needless to say, the suede that Crack sells comes from Stead.
post #149 of 1348
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post


The prime suede tannery in England (possibly in the world) is Charles F Stead in Leeds

http://www.cfstead.com/index2.htm

The Stead tannery is owned by the Crack family: while the father Ernest and the older sons Douglas and Peter are running the tannery, the two younger sons Alan and Anthony did set-up A&A Crack (leather merchants in Northampton) some 25 years ago.

http://www.aacrack.co.uk/default.asp?contentID=1

Needless to say, the suede that Crack sells comes from Stead.


Thank you for this bengal - I am aware Tusting also trade in leather. 

post #150 of 1348
how fitting that the company that supplies the raw material for our addiction is named Crack
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Classic Menswear
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › John Lobb Appreciation Thread