or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › General › Current Events, Power and Money › WTF over-zealous police?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

WTF over-zealous police? - Page 337

post #5041 of 6095
At least you got the who's/whose right this time Piob. Small victories.
post #5042 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennglock View Post

"Overzealous police" is an issue I've done a complete 180 on over the last few years.

From libertarian outrage over the types of stories highlighted in this thread to now wanting to applaud every time I see a cop boot on a neck.

I've realized what an easily manipulated, emotional tool I was being.

On a given day, lay out side by side the amount of crime being perpetrated next to the amount of police misconduct. The scale and amount of harm caused by crime is so out of proportion that I just don't have any time for kvetching over police misconduct. The US has an underclass that's been devastated by crime, and experiences hundreds of billion of dollars in damages annually.

The consequences for violence and theft should be so draconian as to make the thought of perpetrating crime inconceivable. Certain E Asian countries are the model here. Release the police to get tough and make america great again!

False dichotomies FTW.
post #5043 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

"Hey guys, you say there's 'systemic racism.' What 'system' are you talking about?

That's hurr durr.
If you're trying to say LD doesn't feel there's racism in "the system" (HEY, WHAT SYSTEM!?) I think you are misreading him. And if you think you have an "intellectual handhold" that addresses the many cases in this thread without regard to race? Well, can't help you there.
LOL, you say that like you think you could stop me, or anyone for that matter, from looking at who's thumbed what.

I'm too lazy to read all the way back and figure out exactly why you guys are fighting over me (you get used to it after a while). But I think the answer is "you're both pretty".
I do think that to the extent one can ascribe a particular imperative or motive to the state it's more about power preservation and perpetuation than animus toward any particular identifiable demographic. But there's obviously a shitload of conscious and unconscious racism and other isms ingrained both in our national history and our present collective consciousness (this thread should provide ample evidence of that), which is going to be reflected to a certain extent in almost any major institution or power structure. For any number of reasons, those effects may be reflected more obviously or more painfully in some institutions or circumstances than in others.
post #5044 of 6095
I also think we need to distinguish between the institution and the individual actors. I think we can comfortably say that theoretically we're all pretty equal before the laws today with no/very little de jure discrimination. However, the aggregated acts of the individuals that make up the institution in question do yield a de facto systemically skewed result. That's more or less what many of us are pointing out.

Add that in with your (correct) claim that the state is about power preservation, and that it has stacked the deck in favour of protecting cops at just about every cost, and we arrive at our current situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

I'm too lazy to read all the way back and figure out exactly why you guys are fighting over me (you get used to it after a while). But I think the answer is "you're both pretty".
I do think that to the extent one can ascribe a particular imperative or motive to the state it's more about power preservation and perpetuation than animus toward any particular identifiable demographic. But there's obviously a shitload of conscious and unconscious racism and other isms ingrained both in our national history and our present collective consciousness (this thread should provide ample evidence of that), which is going to be reflected to a certain extent in almost any major institution or power structure. For any number of reasons, those effects may be reflected more obviously or more painfully in some institutions or circumstances than in others.
post #5045 of 6095

This is at best secantial to the thread, but I had to take a class to renew my carry permit.  It was taught by a former cop, and he recommended if you're pulled over to tell the cop if you have are carrying.  However he took it to the extreme by saying some cops will have you get out of the car and search you if it is on you or search the car if it is not on you but in the car.  He suggested you should just let a cop do that.

Explain to me why, if I'm exercising my right to carry, I should give up my right to be free from searches?  I don't know what I'd actually do in that scenario, but I'd like to think I would refuse though I certainly don't want to be gunned down.

 

Thoughts? 

post #5046 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

This is at best secantial to the thread, but I had to take a class to renew my carry permit.  It was taught by a former cop, and he recommended if you're pulled over to tell the cop if you have are carrying.  However he took it to the extreme by saying some cops will have you get out of the car and search you if it is on you or search the car if it is not on you but in the car.  He suggested you should just let a cop do that.


Explain to me why, if I'm exercising my right to carry, I should give up my right to be free from searches?  I don't know what I'd actually do in that scenario, but I'd like to think I would refuse though I certainly don't want to be gunned down.

Thoughts? 

You're an attorney, so probably know this better than me, but seems he's saying that a licensed CCW automatically is PC. I really can see no Constitutional way this search is legit.

I would say I do not consent to the search but I would also add that I do not intend to resist this non-consensual, illegal search here but rather will deal with it in the safety of a courtroom.
post #5047 of 6095
Probably because, in general, not dying/being shot > illegal search.

These days, seems like it may be an actual choice.
post #5048 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

Probably because, in general, not dying/being shot > illegal search.

These days, seems like it may be an actual choice.

Agreed, you have to allow yourself to get raped in order to prevent yourself from getting murdered. What a great society we've allowed to happen.
post #5049 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Agreed, you have to allow yourself to get raped in order to prevent yourself from getting murdered. What a great society we've allowed to happen.

You don't like the public cavity searches? GF still giving you nightmares?
post #5050 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Agreed, you have to allow yourself to get raped in order to prevent yourself from getting murdered. What a great society we've allowed to happen.

Well, you know what Bobby Knight says about that.
post #5051 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

Well, you know what Bobby Knight says about that.
He'd throw a chair at me?
post #5052 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

He'd throw a chair at me?

http://deadspin.com/bob-knight-is-once-again-making-unfortunate-comments-ab-1551151299
post #5053 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post


You're an attorney, so probably know this better than me, but seems he's saying that a licensed CCW automatically is PC. I really can see no Constitutional way this search is legit.

I would say I do not consent to the search but I would also add that I do not intend to resist this non-consensual, illegal search here but rather will deal with it in the safety of a courtroom.


I'm no attorney, but that's the approach I would I hope I would take.  Simply tell the officer that I'm not consenting to a search, but I won't resist or attempt to stop him from searching.  That being said, in the first five years of having my permit, I never carried once.  I also have never carried or had anything in the car that is illegal (at least as far as I know).

post #5054 of 6095
Has anyone here ever not given consent to a search and had it end smoothly?
post #5055 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post


I'm no attorney,

I'm proud of you for standing up to Pio's scurrilous attack on your character.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Current Events, Power and Money
Styleforum › Forums › General › Current Events, Power and Money › WTF over-zealous police?