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WTF over-zealous police? - Page 302

post #4516 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by suited View Post


The five murdered officers in Dallas were unquestionably innocent. Do you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that those other two guys did not deserve to be shot? As far as I know, new evidence has not been released and the investigations have just begun. The tapes look bad, but if experience tells us anything it's to wait for things to play out.

 

 

Every now and then I wonder who is worse: you or Lighthouse. You won the yellow jersey today 

post #4517 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post


The obvious reply is those b-ball players were hired to play b-ball and not make political statements while on the job.

Both groups of people were did what they felt was correct due to their biases.

I'd say this is partly true - but at least the basketball players still did their jobs - the cops did not.

post #4518 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

Deserve to be shot?

Yes, I asked if you were certain that neither one of them deserved to be shot. Which part of that was unclear? Hypothetically speaking, if it turns out that the guy in Louisiana was trying to pull his gun out of his pocket with his right hand, does one not deserve to be shot in that situation? If we find out the shooting was unjustified, then your comparison is valid as neither the officers in Dallas or the suspect in Louisiana would have been deserving of their destiny.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumpelstiltskin View Post


Every now and then I wonder who is worse: you or Lighthouse. You won the yellow jersey today

I'm sorry if taking a neutral position until the investigation is completed is a stance that offends you.
post #4519 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

I'd say this is partly true - but at least the basketball players still did their jobs - the cops did not.

What the cops did was in response to people exercising their free speech. As we've all decided here, when people express opinions other people don't like, those people are free to inflict consequences on them. Those cops were not "doing their job" but rather moonlighting. I've got no problem with what they did even though I think it was immature at best.
post #4520 of 6095
Sterling case - the store owner says that after the shooting the police illegally took him into custody and confiscated all of his surveillance/video equipment without a warrant/permission etc.
post #4521 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by suited View Post

Yes, I asked if you were certain that neither one of them deserved to be shot. Which part of that was unclear? Hypothetically speaking, if it turns out that the guy in Louisiana was trying to pull his gun out of his pocket with his right hand, does one not deserve to be shot in that situation? If we find out the shooting was unjustified, then your comparison is valid as neither the officers in Dallas or the suspect in Louisiana would have been deserving of their destiny.
I'm sorry if taking a neutral position until the investigation is completed is a stance that offends you.

If this is what you want to go with there's a whole bunch of white guys that should have been gunned down in Oregon recently.
post #4522 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by suited View Post

Yes, I asked if you were certain that neither one of them deserved to be shot. Which part of that was unclear? Hypothetically speaking, if it turns out that the guy in Louisiana was trying to pull his gun out of his pocket with his right hand, does one not deserve to be shot in that situation? If we find out the shooting was unjustified, then your comparison is valid as neither the officers in Dallas or the suspect in Louisiana would have been deserving of their destiny..

Hypothetically speaking, if they didn't deserve to die, will they come back to life?

Nope, they're still dead regardless.
post #4523 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by taxgenius View Post

When did experience tell us that?

Perhaps the experiences of the Eric Garner and Freddie Gray cases. There were tapes of both incidents and many people wanted immediate indictments and jailings of the cops.

After due process, the Garner case cops were never indicted ( after an extensive review by Obama's DOJ no less ), and it appears that none of the Freddie Gray case cops will be convicted if anything. They were politically show-charged by Mosby in Baltimore and it will be interesting to see if the DOJ goes after them after their dismissals.

And don't go thinking that I want to see avery cop let go after investigations. If they are judged by legal means to be guilty then treat them like any criminal. But they certainly deserve due process.

Last night I got into an argument with someone in my lobby. We were talking about the Alton Sterling case, and he said that after having seen the tape, he thought the officers should immediately be fired, jailed and charged with murder. I said what if they were guilty of no crime within the law? He got real irate and said the tape was evidence enough that they deserved the max. I brought up the Garner tape and said we should wait till the investigations are over. He seemed to think the Alton Sterling case cops should be lynched and then he stalked off.

Do you not accept the possibility that the Sterling case cops are not guilty within the law ( and remember, they haven't even been charged )?
post #4524 of 6095
Even if the cops in the Garner and Gray cases had been jailed immediately, and then later freed upon more investigation, there's a clear difference. Garner and Gray would still be dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnoldh View Post

Perhaps the experiences of the Eric Garner and Freddie Gray cases. There were tapes of both incidents and many people wanted immediate indictments and jailings of the cops.

After due process, the Garner case cops were never indicted ( after an extensive review by Obama's DOJ no less ), and it appears that none of the Freddie Gray case cops will be convicted if anything. They were politically show-charged by Mosby in Baltimore and it will be interesting to see if the DOJ goes after them after their dismissals.

And don't go thinking that I want to see avery cop let go after investigations. If they are judged by legal means to be guilty then treat them like any criminal. But they certainly deserve due process.

Last night I got into an argument with someone in my lobby. We were talking about the Alton Sterling case, and he said that after having seen the tape, he thought the officers should immediately be fired, jailed and charged with murder. I said what if they were guilty of no crime within the law? He got real irate and said the tape was evidence enough that they deserved the max. I brought up the Garner tape and said we should wait till the investigations are over. He seemed to think the Alton Sterling case cops should be lynched and then he stalked off.

Do you not accept the possibility that the Sterling case cops are not guilty within the law ( and remember, they haven't even been charged )?
post #4525 of 6095
Cops shouldn't kill people unless they're prepared to bring them back to life afterwards.

What is the point of this "they're dead!!!" bit, again?
post #4526 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

Hypothetically speaking, if they didn't deserve to die, will they come back to life?

Nope, they're still dead regardless.

And that would be a tragedy and those officers should be in prison. I'm not disagreeing with you on the idea that there needs to be more accountability and restraint if at all possible. Anyone who honestly believes in less government would have to want more accountability and less force from police, unless absolutely necessary. I'm in that boat.

I just disagree with your premature assessment that compares the deaths in Dallas to Louisiana and Minnesota.
post #4527 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Even if the cops in the Garner and Gray cases had been jailed immediately, and then later freed upon more investigation, there's a clear difference. Garner and Gray would still be dead.

What are you trying to point out? That the perps are always dead, while the cop is safe? I was just saying that everyone, even cops, deserve due process.

How about this. When the Dallas case was going down, I said that I hoped that the DPD waited out Micah and took him alive, so they could learn more about him. The BLMers were complaining that the DPD was quick to blow Micah up, and he could have lived. They pointed out that the White killer, Dylan Roof, was taken alive in SC, while Killers of Color ( KoCs, you can register that one ), are always killed. The San Bernardino killers are examples of killed KoCs, as well as the dozens of BLM cause celebre cases of the past few year.

So what do you think? Is it racism that KoCs are almost always killed while White dirtbags like Dylan Roof get a pass.
Edited by rnoldh - 7/12/16 at 12:49pm
post #4528 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnoldh View Post

What are you trying to point out? That the perps are always dead, while the cop is safe? I was just saying that everyone, even cops, deserve due process.

If you're dead how do you get your due process? You're boxing at strawmen if you think anyone here has said police do not deserve due process too.
post #4529 of 6095
I hesitate to say what due process is (penumbras and all), but that is nonsense. Due process means the process that is due under the circumstances. If, for example, you're killed while trying to shoot a cop, you got all the process you were due because of the exigencies of the situation.
post #4530 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

I hesitate to say what due process is (penumbras and all), but that is nonsense. Due process means the process that is due under the circumstances. If, for example, you're killed while trying to shoot a cop, you got all the process you were due because of the exigencies of the situation.

What if you were killed when complying with an officer's lawful orders?
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