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WTF over-zealous police? - Page 173

post #2581 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

I pulled up at a traffic light tonight to make a left hand turn to find police with their weapons drawn. Sure wasn't a great feeling sitting directly in line behind the car they were pointing at.

What I don't get is why when you're sitting in a car and the cops have their guns drawn and pointing at you, and they tell you to do x, you do !x. There were five or six teenage or 20 somethings crammed into a 20+ year old civic, and the driver opened the door and stuck her head out and was yelling at the cops. I have to be honest, regardless of whether the cops are right or wrong, I sure wouldn't be making sudden moves or yelling, or opening the car door when they yell at you to stay in the vehicle.
No fun. Glad your privileges were obvious enough to allow you to survive to post about it.
Your post gave me a bit of a flashback. One time years ago I was driving late at night with my very Berkeley college girlfriend. Got pulled over for no apparent reason. The cops had their high beams and spotlight on us, and ordered me to get out of the car slowly with my hands on top of my head. Girlfriend was getting all hyper, and I told her to cool it because the cops sounded serious and agitated. They had me turn around and I saw three squad cars and a bunch of cops with guns drawn. Turned out they had been looking for someone fleeing after an armed robbery and thought we might be them because there were few other cars driving around the area that late. It got sorted out and they apologized, but it was scary as hell having a bunch of obviously nervous cops aiming their guns at me on a dark, empty street. Would not have thought for a second about giving them attitude or refusing to comply with their directions in the most obvious and non-threatening way possible in that situation,
post #2582 of 6095
Did she run a stop sign in front of the cop at the beginning of the video? In many if not post places, cops can arrest you for traffic violations. And they don't have to decide whether to arrest you immediately, so you should be nice to them.

That being said she's pretty obviously right that the cop caused her lane change by exceeding the speed limit and tailgating her. Is that a defense? I doubt it, but maybe.

But is the cop responsible for her suicide? Give me a break.
post #2583 of 6095
Since we're sharing stories, a Texas cop pulled that forced lane-change stop on me a few years back. I was passing a truck on I-10 at a more or less legal speed, and he comes up behind me at 100+ mph without the flashers or the siren on (that's illegal where I'm from, though I have no idea about Texas). So I sped up and got over as quickly as I could, assuming he had somewhere to be, and he pulls me over and writes me a warning for "cutting in after passing." It's a pretty common trick, and of course it's a pretext for drug interdiction on cars with out of state plates (like the lady in this instance).
post #2584 of 6095
I've had them try that on me. Cruise control stops human nature. I see a cop barreling up on me and I set the cruise at four mph over the limit and just hold my ground. If a nice open spot happens I'll signal and slowly move over. Unless they turn on the berries I act like them bully fuckers are not even there. I also get right back in the lane after they pass and put the cruise back on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

Since we're sharing stories, a Texas cop pulled that forced lane-change stop on me a few years back. I was passing a truck on I-10 at a more or less legal speed, and he comes up behind me at 100+ mph without the flashers or the siren on (that's illegal where I'm from, though I have no idea about Texas). So I sped up and got over as quickly as I could, assuming he had somewhere to be, and he pulls me over and writes me a warning for "cutting in after passing." It's a pretty common trick, and of course it's a pretext for drug interdiction on cars with out of state plates (like the lady in this instance).
post #2585 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

Did she run a stop sign in front of the cop at the beginning of the video? In many if not post places, cops can arrest you for traffic violations. And they don't have to decide whether to arrest you immediately, so you should be nice to them.

That being said she's pretty obviously right that the cop caused her lane change by exceeding the speed limit and tailgating her. Is that a defense? I doubt it, but maybe.

But is the cop responsible for her suicide? Give me a break.

Do you feel the cop acted appropriately there? I mean, she certainly was a piece of work, but did the professional law enforcement officer act ethically and professionally there?

I like how he kept shouting, "I'm giving you a lawful order." I bet that gets drilled into them just like the trick of screaming, "Stop resisting!" while the person lies there passively.
post #2586 of 6095
"I will light you up" is actually on page 112 of their training manual.
post #2587 of 6095
Ethically and professionally? I'm not sure what that means. Was he as nice to her as he could have been? No.

Was the cop justified in asking her to put out the cigarette (cigarettes are often used to mask the odor of alcohol or drugs) or get out of the vehicle? Objectively speaking, absolutely. Subjectively there might be an issue about whether he had proper motives or was just upset that she was so nasty to him. There might also be an issue with the extended detention after he seems to have decided not to arrest her, prior to her mouthing off, but her behavior is suspicious, in addition to being hostile, which I would think justifies him changing his mind if that turns out to be an issue.

But, regardless, when a cop gives you a lawful order, you have to follow it. Cops can use or threaten force to make you comply. She's pretty clearly in the wrong in refusing and the force he used doesn't seem to have been excessive.
post #2588 of 6095
I watched the video. The woman was being a pain. However, the cop should know better and learn how to diffuse situations. If she keeps acting up, I'm pretty sure he could write her up for more shit. Let her have the shitty day. No idea why he'd let the situation escalate so much.
post #2589 of 6095
I guess it depends on where you think he should have diffused the situation. He got her out of the car and prevented her from driving away, starting a high speed chase, killing herself or someone else, etc., and no one got hurt.

I'd say that's pretty good.
post #2590 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

I guess it depends on where you think he should have diffused the situation. He got her out of the car and prevented her from driving away, starting a high speed chase, killing herself or someone else, etc., and no one got hurt.

I'd say that's pretty good.

Well, actually, he only put that off for a few days.

So 'Turk, can you give me an example of an unlawful order a cop might give me? A situation where I do not have to listen to and immediately comply with an order? I'm sincerely interested.
post #2591 of 6095
As a general rule, you should do what the cop tells you that you have to do. If you think it's illegal, sort that out later.

You are not a lawyer, and more than that, even if you were and had a perfect understanding of the law (most lawyers don't), the test for the reasonableness of the cop's actions is what HE knew or believed at the time, not what you knew. You can't possibly know what basis the cop has or could have for giving you instructions, so you just obey them.
post #2592 of 6095
Ata's right. When they take you to 3 separate hospitals and force you to undergo 3 separate enemas, multiple x-rays and multiple finger insertions into your asshole that find no drugs you should just sit there and take it like a good little person.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/16/justice/new-mexico-search-settlement/
post #2593 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

Ethically and professionally? I'm not sure what that means. Was he as nice to her as he could have been? No.

Was the cop justified in asking her to put out the cigarette (cigarettes are often used to mask the odor of alcohol or drugs) or get out of the vehicle? Objectively speaking, absolutely. Subjectively there might be an issue about whether he had proper motives or was just upset that she was so nasty to him. There might also be an issue with the extended detention after he seems to have decided not to arrest her, prior to her mouthing off, but her behavior is suspicious, in addition to being hostile, which I would think justifies him changing his mind if that turns out to be an issue.

But, regardless, when a cop gives you a lawful order, you have to follow it. Cops can use or threaten force to make you comply. She's pretty clearly in the wrong in refusing and the force he used doesn't seem to have been excessive.

What about the fact that he does at one point tell her that she is under arrest, but then refuses to tell her what she is being arrested for (you know...until later when she is resisting)?


When I see this, I think back to those videos of whiteboys in trucks on how they "beat" DUI checkpoints by doing things like refusing to open their windows, repeatedly asking if they are under arrest or free to go, refusing to exit the vehicle, etc. She may have had a little more of a mouth on her, but was she doing anything that different?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

As a general rule, you should do what the cop tells you that you have to do. If you think it's illegal, sort that out later.

You are not a lawyer, and more than that, even if you were and had a perfect understanding of the law (most lawyers don't), the test for the reasonableness of the cop's actions is what HE knew or believed at the time, not what you knew. You can't possibly know what basis the cop has or could have for giving you instructions, so you just obey them.

And what if you are from a marginalized population that sees frequent abuse and unlawful orders from the police? What if you don't have the time and money to go after a cop who performed an illegal search (but found nothing) or roughed you up at an unprovoked traffic stop? Just keep doing what they tell you to do?
post #2594 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

As a general rule, you should do what the cop tells you that you have to do. If you think it's illegal, sort that out later.

You are not a lawyer, and more than that, even if you were and had a perfect understanding of the law (most lawyers don't), the test for the reasonableness of the cop's actions is what HE knew or believed at the time, not what you knew. You can't possibly know what basis the cop has or could have for giving you instructions, so you just obey them.

So if he tells me to step out of the car and do those roadside tests for alcohol I should obey him?
post #2595 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

As a general rule, you should do what the cop tells you that you have to do. If you think it's illegal, sort that out later.

You are not a lawyer, and more than that, even if you were and had a perfect understanding of the law (most lawyers don't), the test for the reasonableness of the cop's actions is what HE knew or believed at the time, not what you knew. You can't possibly know what basis the cop has or could have for giving you instructions, so you just obey them.

I assume you're quite aware that this isn't an answer to the question Pio asked.
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