or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › General › Current Events, Power and Money › WTF over-zealous police?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

WTF over-zealous police? - Page 161

post #2401 of 6095
I have three friends in law enforcement (one no longer doing that, the other two still active.)

All three have been shot at, one of them hit in his vest. All have been attacked by people with various blunt instruments, two by people with knives. All of them have had to fight and grapple with people on a routine basis. One had to deal with explosive booby traps while making an arrest.

I've been on ride-alongs with them and seen mob violence first hand and up close. I also was on a call responding to an crazy armed gunman shooting randomly and threatening people with a gun.

Cops are on edge for a reason. The job of an active law enforcement officer can be dangerous, and violence is a regular part of their job.
post #2402 of 6095
I have a friend who is a cop, and in his first year, he has had people pull guns on him, knives, etc. He also showed up just in time to watch someone blow their brains out.

That doesn't mean there aren't a lot of over-zealous police out there.
post #2403 of 6095
The answer is more guns, bigger guns and better guns. Always.
post #2404 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai View Post

I have three friends in law enforcement (one no longer doing that, the other two still active.)

All three have been shot at, one of them hit in his vest. All have been attacked by people with various blunt instruments, two by people with knives. All of them have had to fight and grapple with people on a routine basis. One had to deal with explosive booby traps while making an arrest.

I've been on ride-alongs with them and seen mob violence first hand and up close. I also was on a call responding to an crazy armed gunman shooting randomly and threatening people with a gun.

Cops are on edge for a reason. The job of an active law enforcement officer can be dangerous, and violence is a regular part of their job.


Do they live in Camden or Detroit? Otherwise I suspect your cop friends are creative make-believing.
post #2405 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold falcon View Post

Do they live in Camden or Detroit? Otherwise I suspect your cop friends are creative make-believing.

This sounds very much like, "I caught a fish THIIIIIIIIS big," type of bragging.
post #2406 of 6095
So according to this, there are 50-60k assaults on police officers a year, 15k resulting in any kind of injury. 100-150 deaths, so we can probably assume most of those injuries are minor. "Assaulting a police officer" is also one of the most overblown charges, so a reasonable number of those assaults are probably minor tussles and the number of real assaults is closer to the number of injuries.

Either way, cops are on average getting assaulted much much less than once a year even if you account for the fact that most police aren't on the beat. It's certainly a dangerous job, but this idea that they're routinely getting attacked doesn't hold up to the evidence.
post #2407 of 6095
I'm pretty suspicious of reported "assault against an officer" given that's a default charge when you piss them off.
post #2408 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I'm pretty suspicious of reported "assault against an officer" given that's a default charge when you piss them off.

Oh, exactly.

There was a feature on NPR about the assaulting a police officer (APO) statute in DC. It covers all kinds of behavior, basically anything that might interfere with an arrest in any way. Trying to pull away even momentarily is APO, even if they're arresting you for no reason. 2/3 of the APO arrests came without any other charge. It's basically a way to criminalize any kind of non-compliance and gives them huge leverage to fuck with the population even when they're not committing crimes.


Funny thing is that even the police union wants that law changed and defined more narrowly but it hasn't happened yet.
post #2409 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

Oh, exactly.

There was a feature on NPR about the assaulting a police officer (APO) statute in DC. It covers all kinds of behavior, basically anything that might interfere with an arrest in any way. Trying to pull away even momentarily is APO, even if they're arresting you for no reason. 2/3 of the APO arrests came without any other charge. It's basically a way to criminalize any kind of non-compliance and gives them huge leverage to fuck with the population even when they're not committing crimes.


Funny thing is that even the police union wants that law changed and defined more narrowly but it hasn't happened yet.

Exactly this.
post #2410 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold falcon View Post

Do they live in Camden or Detroit? Otherwise I suspect your cop friends are creative make-believing.


Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Phoenix.


Not creative make believing. I've known these guys for more than 30 years.

Sorry you don't believe it, but it is the simple truth.
post #2411 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai View Post

Sorry you don't believe it, but it is the simple truth.

 

Your three friends are not a representative sample.

post #2412 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanm View Post

Your three friends are not a representative sample.


I'm not sure why you say that. Certainly not representative samples for quiet Mayberry towns or highway patrol, but I don't believe that their experience is out of the ordinary for beat officers in high crime areas. Being shot at is clearly not an everyday occurrence, but dealing with violent combative people is pretty routine. I've seen first hand an arrest warrant service devolve into a melee involving 30+ people. I found it pretty scary. To the cops there, it was just another day at the office.

Do you have friends who are cops?
post #2413 of 6095
Quote:
dealing with violent combative people is pretty routine

It's surprisingly hard to find good stats on this, but it looks like about 10% of cops are assaulted in a given year. That's certainly a reasonably high number, but an assault every ten years on average per officer isn't exactly what I'd call "routine."


I don't think anybody doubts that cops see violence as part of their jobs, but it's no argument for escalating violence by police and diminishing civil rights. I think a lot of cops think violence against police is A) rampant B) increasingly common, and neither of those are true if you look at statistics. They're a lot LESS likely to get attacked than they were even ten years ago, but the attitude from many seems to be that they're under siege like the dark days of the 1970s.
post #2414 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post


It's surprisingly hard to find good stats on this, but it looks like about 10% of cops are assaulted in a given year. That's certainly a reasonably high number, but an assault every ten years on average per officer isn't exactly what I'd call "routine."


I don't think anybody doubts that cops see violence as part of their jobs, but it's no argument for escalating violence by police and diminishing civil rights. I think a lot of cops think violence against police is A) rampant B) increasingly common, and neither of those are true if you look at statistics. They're a lot LESS likely to get attacked than they were even ten years ago, but the attitude from many seems to be that they're under siege like the dark days of the 1970s.


Ah, the availability heuristic in a social media age. 

post #2415 of 6095
Your statistic may be true for all cops as a group, including folks who sit at desks doing paperwork, etc. and cops in small towns with few problems.

For cops actually patrolling in dangerous areas, and serving arrest warrants on violent criminals, that number is going to be much higher. Have you ever even talked to a cop that works a high crime beat and asked him/her about his experiences? Violence is not something that happens every ten years. It is routine. People fight with cops on a regular basis. Foot pursuits, being hit, kicked, tackled spit on, and threatened, are a common part of the experience. It's not an every ten year thing.

Even in a relatively safe place like Boulder, Colorado, I've seen cops attacked by drunk students.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

It's surprisingly hard to find good stats on this, but it looks like about 10% of cops are assaulted in a given year. That's certainly a reasonably high number, but an assault every ten years on average per officer isn't exactly what I'd call "routine."


I don't think anybody doubts that cops see violence as part of their jobs, but it's no argument for escalating violence by police and diminishing civil rights. I think a lot of cops think violence against police is A) rampant B) increasingly common, and neither of those are true if you look at statistics. They're a lot LESS likely to get attacked than they were even ten years ago, but the attitude from many seems to be that they're under siege like the dark days of the 1970s.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Current Events, Power and Money
Styleforum › Forums › General › Current Events, Power and Money › WTF over-zealous police?