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WTF over-zealous police? - Page 118

post #1756 of 6244
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Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

So are you saying that the only way to determine whether a department is troublesome is to precisely compare it to others? I mean, surely, if you live somewhere, it isn't hard to keep up with the police are doing. Do you think the cops are killing people and no one ever finds out about it? It ain't happening.

It's real convenient too, since localities decide how they're policed.

How about you actually make a case for why a national listing of people killed by police is bad/unnecessary? Many people have been requesting this sort of information, and even in our idiotic low level discussions, the need has shown up several times. Why should it not exist?
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You're missing the point.
Oh, likewise I'm sure.
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I am not sure if you get it or not here. The relevant question is what the cop would perceive based on what he had available to him at the time he had to make the decision. If it turns out to be a wallet and not a gun, that doesn't mean the cop was necessarily wrong. I'm sorry if that's not comforting to you, but if you've got a better idea, I'm listening.
Changes in procedure and training can (and do) influence how police perceive risks. Their subjective assessments of risks are demonstrably affected by their biases, their training, and experience among other things.

Just as one example, the Philly police requested a federal review of their policies and practices in light of high rates of violence. The conclusion: Philly police aren't adequately trained on when to use deadly force. Their perception of risks is out of wack with the reality of situations and can be improved. They had a very significant decrease in police shootings in the last year, and no increase in police deaths.
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And somehow I doubt sociologists and social justice warriors are in a better position to decide whether a cop is really in danger than he is. If you really want to go back to the numbers, or what we've got them, cops kill 400 and get killed 50. You don't know what percentage of those 400 were necessary (but I think we can agree it's pretty high).
Oh, I'm sure it's a rather high percentage. I don't want to see cops hogtied or forced to explain why they used eight bullets instead of two. But I want to reduce the number of Americans killed in the streets as much as possible, and yes, that does include criminals.
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Just what basis do you have to say that cops are poor judges of risk?

The system right now is closed-loop. There's no independent evaluation of what a "good shoot" really is, it's all coming from within the same community of involved and self-interested police. Getting some sunlight on this process to determine whether this loop is accurately assessing risk has to be a good thing. Our police are killing a LOT of our citizens, far more than any other First World country. A non-trivial number of those people end up being unarmed. That should be enough to warrant a more thorough consideration of the system.


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But it's not a monopoly. "The state" is literally tens of thousands of independent localities. If you want your town policed a certain way, vote for somebody who'll make it happen. If you don't like the way Town A is policed, don't go there. The federal system is wonderful. We don't have to agree about everything to get along.
The idea of experimenting with local policies to see what works only functions if you actually know what other people are doing and how well it works. If all the information stays bottled up at the local level, you're just running a whole bunch of parallel experiments and losing the benefits of improving from other people's mistakes. Localities make very poor laboratories if they're not publishing and sharing their results.

Honestly, what's the downside to that information being available? If I live in City X and want to look at the police policies of other cities to improve mine (or figure out where the hell else to move), why should that not be accessible?
post #1757 of 6244
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoVaguy View Post

Michael Brown was a shoplifter; Garner was selling loose cigarettes; and the SC guy had a broken taillight and was behind on child support. And the other guy in NY (akai gurley)was just walking the stairs when he was shot by the nypd cops. None have murders in their background. Doesn't always seem like a good fit to your excuse.

The people who want to make this a blacks vs the cops issue are also the same people who think white people, in general, are racists, and if that were true one could reasonably assume that whites wouldn't give two shits about any issue that predominantly affects blacks. Essentially, these people on the left are outlining the problem in a way that pretty much guarantees nothing will be done about it. I don't see a tremendous amount of public pressure forming until it's effectively presented as something that affects everyone.

To your point, why does Brown get the benefit of being characterized as a shoplifter when that wasn't the extent of the crime he committed that day?
post #1758 of 6244
Quote:
Originally Posted by suited View Post

The people who want to make this a blacks vs the cops issue are also the same people who think white people, in general, are racists, and if that were true one could reasonably assume that whites wouldn't give two shits about any issue that predominantly affects blacks. Essentially, these people on the left are outlining the problem in a way that pretty much guarantees nothing will be done about it. I don't see a tremendous amount of public pressure forming until it's effectively presented as something that affects everyone.

To your point, why does Brown get the benefit of being characterized as a shoplifter when that wasn't the extent of the crime he committed that day?

Have you ever met a black person that does not think all white people are racists, "in general"?

I have not and doubt I ever will. Sadly this mindset runs the gamut from extremely poor black people all the way to extremely successful black people.I don't think it will change in my lifetime either.
post #1759 of 6244
sounds like you haven't met a lot of black people...
post #1760 of 6244
So we're just going to discard the thought that maybe all white people are racist in general?
post #1761 of 6244
All white people are definitely racist. The Caucasoids as they call them. Just like all Negroids are racist. And all Mongoloids are racist. Those are the big three, the rest are racist too, including the mixed races.
post #1762 of 6244
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Originally Posted by Nil View Post

That 400 deaths by police number is based off of FBI information which is incomplete. The FBI relies on voluntary partcipation by police departments and many don't participate. http://www.killedbypolice.net/, which combs news articles for killings by police, has 1100 deaths for 2014. It's information doesn't go very far back unfortunately, only to May 2013, so it's impossible to see if that number is an outlier or the norm.

I clicked the first one, and this was it: cop runs over a drunk at 4 AM on New Year's.

http://www.wggb.com/2015/01/01/longmeadow-man-dead-after-being-struck-by-chatham-police-cruiser/
post #1763 of 6244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold falcon View Post

All white people are definitely racist. The Caucasoids as they call them. Just like all Negroids are racist. And all Mongoloids are racist. Those are the big three, the rest are racist too, including the mixed races.

But you forgot the rare and hardly known Nongoloids.

They are the only group that is non-racist.
post #1764 of 6244
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnoldh View Post

Have you ever met a black person that does not think all white people are racists, "in general"?

I have not and doubt I ever will. Sadly this mindset runs the gamut from extremely poor black people all the way to extremely successful black people.I don't think it will change in my lifetime either.


"The people who want to make this a blacks vs the cops issue"


Which part of that means, or even remotely implies that I'm referring to all black people?
post #1765 of 6244
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnoldh View Post

Have you ever met a black person that does not think all white people are racists, "in general"?

I have not and doubt I ever will.

How many black people have you met (ball park), and how many have mentioned to you (whether prompted or not) that they think all white people are racist? Serious question.
post #1766 of 6244
Tulsa deputy apologizes to family of shooting victim in 'Today' interview, says killing suspect when he reached for gun instead of Taser 'can happen to anyone'

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/robert-bates-apologizes-family-eric-harris-article-1.2188740


What a joke. It "can happen to anyone?"
What is sad is that I can definitely see him not getting any jail time.
post #1767 of 6244
By "anyone," he means "any private citizen who fails to receive proper weapons training, then gets authorities to lie about it for him."

What really gets me is that Harris was on the ground being subdued by other officers when Bates shot him. Bates couldn't have paused two seconds to look at the weapon in his hand to confirm it was a taser and not a gun?
post #1768 of 6244
Does a suspect that has already been wrestled to the ground really need to be tased?
post #1769 of 6244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold falcon View Post

All white people are definitely racist. The Caucasoids as they call them. Just like all Negroids are racist. And all Mongoloids are racist. Those are the big three, the rest are racist too, including the mixed races.
This
. Anyone who denies this has fallen prey to PC delusion that no one should attribute common attributes to members of any group having a certain genetic commonality. That is rubbish . Everyone does it . I liken this the stupid idea that one should never assume things .WTF you could not even get out of bed in the morning without making a half dozen assumptions . Likewise recognizing that humans come in different packages and that sometimes those packages are the result of race is merely a part of gathering in groups Always has been always will be
Now how we treat each other based on these perceptions .therein lies the rub
post #1770 of 6244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joffrey View Post

Does a suspect that has already been wrestled to the ground really need to be tased?


Yes...if you want to "get your rocks off" and feel that you were a part of the arrest.

Dude should be IN jail right now! I'm sorry doesn't cut it. And the fact that he is looking for sympathy with the "I have/had cancer" is more bullshit!
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