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WTF over-zealous police? - Page 87

post #1291 of 6095
The "unauthorized" use of force doesn't happen until Garner starts flailing around with the cop on his back. That's a dangerous situation, especially if that window had turned out to be glass (not sure if it was based on the way it reacts when they slam into it).
post #1292 of 6095
I'm with Turk in that Garner's actions escalated things. Don't start with the, "Are you saying he deserved to die?!!11?" because I'm not. What I'm saying is that if you're a giant (black) man, and a group of cops decide to arrest you, submit. You're not going to get out of being arrested by resisting and you might end up dead.
post #1293 of 6095
[quote name="Piobaire" url="/t/336560/wtf-over-zealous-police/1290#post_7583369" What I'm saying is that if you're a giant (black) man, and a group of cops decide to arrest you, submit. .[/quote]

Correct, and the same advice should be heeded by giant white men.

Yellow and brown men too.

The Michael Brown and Garner incidents were not primarily about race. Of course there were racial aspects in that the incidents occurred in primarily black, high crime areas.

Garner's daughter has very notably said that her dad's death was not about race ( it seems she is saying it was about police brutality and excessive force, which I would agree with ). If a 350 Lb white man was selling loosies in a lower class white area, does anyone doubt the same outcome could have resulted.

As to Michael Brown, it's the same old BS. His Mom has said that Wilson woke up wanting to murder a black man that morning, and that her son was killed primarily for his race and not for his actions That's BS and very counter productive for meaningful change.
post #1294 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

The "unauthorized" use of force doesn't happen until Garner starts flailing around with the cop on his back. That's a dangerous situation, especially if that window had turned out to be glass (not sure if it was based on the way it reacts when they slam into it).


Or perhaps the unauthorized use of force began when the officer jumped on Garner's back and started choking him which caused him to flail about, which the video clearly shows

post #1295 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnoldh View Post


Correct, and the same advice should be heeded by giant white men.

Yellow and brown men too.

The Michael Brown and Garner incidents were not primarily about race. Of course there were racial aspects in that the incidents occurred in primarily black, high crime areas.

Garner's daughter has very notably said that her dad's death was not about race ( it seems she is saying it was about police brutality and excessive force, which I would agree with ). If a 350 Lb white man was selling loosies in a lower class white area, does anyone doubt the same outcome could have resulted.

As to Michael Brown, it's the same old BS. His Mom has said that Wilson woke up wanting to murder a black man that morning, and that her son was killed primarily for his race and not for his actions That's BS and very counter productive for meaningful change.

 

Staten Island is a black area?  New York must have changed since I lived there (admittedly a while ago)

post #1296 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumpelstiltskin View Post

Staten Island is a black area?  New York must have changed since I lived there (admittedly a while ago)

I'm sure I moved away from NYC before you did. And Staten Island is the largest borough and primarily very white demographically.

But, the Garner incident happened across the street from Tomkinsville Park which is a primarily black, high crime specific location ( known as probably the worst location in Staten Island ).

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/07/post_875.html
post #1297 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumpelstiltskin View Post

Staten Island is a black area?  New York must have changed since I lived there (admittedly a while ago)

You should realize too that I am agreeing with you in a way.

Put it this way, I maintain that a black, white, yellow or brown man is 1000X more likely to have what happened to Brown and Garner, happen to them, when they are in areas like Ferguson or Tomkinsville Park.

As opposed to a black, white, yellow or brown man having it happen to them in front of St Patricks or the Plaza Hotel.

So there is a huge geographic component in these type of things. Is that component strictly racial ( based on skin color of the neighborhoods? ). Or is it socio-economic and based more on economics and things like crime rates ( in those areas )?

I maintain that there is a skin color bias ( against blacks ) but it is WAY overblown. And there is a definite socio-economic aspect that is too often SWEPT under the rug.
post #1298 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnoldh View Post


I'm sure I moved away from NYC before you did. And Staten Island is the largest borough and primarily very white demographically.

But, the Garner incident happened across the street from Tomkinsville Park which is a primarily black, high crime specific location ( known as probably the worst location in Staten Island ).

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/07/post_875.html

 

When I left Koch was still in office and Miami Vice was still on television

 

Queens is the largest borough followed by Brooklyn. 

 

I don't know diddly about Staten Island except the Verrazano Bridge and if Rudy (hs classmate) missed the ferry he would be 2 hours late to school.

 

 

 

 

Almost forgot these guys  .  The word on the street is they are not to be effed with

post #1299 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnoldh View Post


You should realize too that I am agreeing with you in a way.

Put it this way, I maintain that a black, white, yellow or brown man is 1000X more likely to have what happened to Brown and Garner, happen to them, when they are in areas like Ferguson or Tomkinsville Park.

As opposed to a black, white, yellow or brown man having it happen to them in front of St Patricks or the Plaza Hotel.

So there is a huge geographic component in these type of things. Is that component strictly racial ( based on skin color of the neighborhoods? ). Or is it socio-economic and based more on economics and things like crime rates ( in those areas )?

I maintain that there is a skin color bias ( against blacks ) but it is WAY overblown. And there is a definite socio-economic aspect that is too often SWEPT under the rug.

 

Oh I know.  Almost no arguments from me.  Almost

post #1300 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnoldh View Post

You should realize too that I am agreeing with you in a way.

Put it this way, I maintain that a black, white, yellow or brown man is 1000X more likely to have what happened to Brown and Garner, happen to them, when they are in areas like Ferguson or Tomkinsville Park.

As opposed to a black, white, yellow or brown man having it happen to them in front of St Patricks or the Plaza Hotel.

So there is a huge geographic component in these type of things. Is that component strictly racial ( based on skin color of the neighborhoods? ). Or is it socio-economic and based more on economics and things like crime rates ( in those areas )?

I maintain that there is a skin color bias ( against blacks ) but it is WAY overblown. And there is a definite socio-economic aspect that is too often SWEPT under the rug.

From the studies on Stop and Frisk, minorities were more likely to be arrested and more likely to have violent police responses even in white/low crime areas. Close to double the rate of whites, actually.
post #1301 of 6095
Is that because the cops are harassing black people for no reason, or because they're focusing on high-crime annexes in white/low-crime areas?
post #1302 of 6095
If they're trying to focus on high crime minorities areas, their success rate was poor. Almost half as likely to find drugs or weapons on blacks in those arrests as on whites in the same area.
post #1303 of 6095
On the topic of justified police shootings:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/another-police-involved-shooting-death-of-a-black-teenager-in-the-st-louis-area-spurs-calls-for-more-protests-heightens-tensions/2014/12/24/1e0f3de4-8b76-11e4-8ff4-fb93129c9c8b_story.html?hpid=z4

Kid pulled a gun on a cop, got shot.

Some of the protesters are already trying to shoehorn him into the narrative.
Quote:
“As Christmas Eve dawns, another family mourns a child,” declared the Rev. Osagyefo Sekou, who has been heavily involved in the St. Louis area protests that have gone on since Brown’s shooting death in August. “Another makeshift memorial starts to form for yet another life cut short by the cavalier ‘shoot first, ask questions later’ approach of too many of those charged with protecting and serving,” Sekou’s statement, sent to the media Wednesday morning, said.

The protesters’ attention is most likely to turn to the police narrative of the shooting and the media portrayal of the incident and the victim.

“Mr. Martin either had a gun or didn’t, but by morning he will have morphed into a gun wielding ‘super negro’, firing from bushes with at least two different handguns with his DNA-less hands, displaying his “demon” strength, and “bulking up” before running towards armed police,” Sekou said. “What’s more, we’ll soon know if he ever smoked marijuana, got good grades at school and if he ever took a selfie with a bottle of liquor.”

Come on buddy. You don't pull guns on cops and expect them to sit around and wait to see what you're going to do afterwards. I don't really care what the kid's background was (sure we'll find out anyway), but sure seems like a case of straight up self-defense by the cop.
post #1304 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

If they're trying to focus on high crime minorities areas, their success rate was poor. Almost half as likely to find drugs or weapons on blacks in those arrests as on whites in the same area.

Are these numbers adjusted for age demographics? I doubt it. I have some other suspicions about how they come up with that number. I think you may have already, but would you mind giving me the link to your source again?
post #1305 of 6095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

Are these numbers adjusted for age demographics? I doubt it. I have some other suspicions about how they come up with that number. I think you may have already, but would you mind giving me the link to your source again?


Blech. Don't bother us with your old fashioned "facts" and "statistics" and "reality."

We've moved way beyond that, pal.

Narratives, modalities, conversations . . . .

That's where it is, man.
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