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WTF over-zealous police? - Page 75

post #1111 of 6080
I really don't understand this one. The cop was using a prohibited chokehold on Garner that directly resulted in his death. That's not even worthy of a trial? What exactly does a cop need to do to be charged with murder/manslaughter?
post #1112 of 6080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nil View Post

I really don't understand this one. The cop was using a prohibited chokehold on Garner that directly resulted in his death. That's not even worthy of a trial? What exactly does a cop need to do to be charged with murder/manslaughter?

kill other cops
post #1113 of 6080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nil View Post

I really don't understand this one. The cop was using a prohibited chokehold on Garner that directly resulted in his death. That's not even worthy of a trial? What exactly does a cop need to do to be charged with murder/manslaughter?

Agree. The facts of this case make it apparent enough (not 100% unequivocally, of course, but abundantly clear) that the failure even to indict the cop is a huge fucking problem, and a symptom of a worse problem.

My hunch is that this case shouldn't even be divisive except for the most explicit and avowed of racists and fascism-supporting police-state lovers. But perhaps because it isn't sufficiently divisive, it might not end up getting the attention and traction that it merits. I hope I'm being unduly cynical about the latter point--in our current climate, maybe this egregious case could be some sort of tipping point into an effective call for policing the cops more properly.
post #1114 of 6080
Let's see what Big Al and DeBlasio say and do.

NYC ain't Ferguson.

To be clear, all I know is what I saw on the video, and this case is very surprising and problematic.
post #1115 of 6080
As for the cop that killed Tamir Rice: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/03/officer-who-fatally-shot-tamir-rice-had-been-judged-unfit?CMP=share_btn_tw&utm_content=buffer48d33&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Quote:
Officer who fatally shot Tamir Rice judged unfit for duty by police in 2012

A police officer who shot a 12-year-old dead in a Cleveland park late last month had been judged unfit for police service two years earlier by a small suburban force where he worked for six months, according to records released Wednesday.

...

“During a state range qualification course, Ptl Loehmann was distracted and weepy,” Polak wrote, naming the trainer as Sgt Tinnirello. “[Loehmann] could not follow simple directions, could not communicate clear thoughts nor recollections, and his handgun performance was dismal. Sgt Tinnirello tried to work through this with Ptl Loehmann by giving him some time. But, after some talking it was clear to Sgt Tinnirello that the recruit was just not mentally prepared to be doing firearm training. ...

“Ptl. Loehmann continued with his emotional meltdown to a point where Sgt. Tinnirello could not take him into the store, so they went to get something to eat and he continued to try and calm Ptl Loehmann. Sgt Tinnirello describes the recruit as being very downtrodden, melancholy with some light crying. Sgt. Tinnirello later found this emotional perplexity was due to a personal issue with Ptl. Loehmann’s on and off again girlfriend whom he was dealing with till 0400 hrs the night before. (Pti. Loehmann was scheduled for 0800 the morning in question).

Some of the comments made by Ptl Loehmann during this discourse were to the effect of, “I should have gone to NY”, “maybe I should quit”, “I have no friends”, “I only hang out with 73-year-old priests”, “I have cried every day for four months about this girl.”

In recommending Loehmann’s dismissal, Polak listed what he said were other performance shortcomings, including Loehmann’s having left his gun unlocked, lied to supervisors and failed to follow orders.

“Due to this dangerous loss of composure during live range training and his inability to manage this personal stress, I do not believe Ptl Loehmann shows the maturity needed to work in our employment,” Polak concludes. “For these reasons, I am recommending he be released from the employment of the city of Independence. I do not believe time, nor training, will be able to change or correct these deficiencies.”
post #1116 of 6080
So he should be commended for his remarkable progress in two years? That was a tough shot, and he nailed it.
post #1117 of 6080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

So he should be commended for his remarkable progress in two years? That was a tough shot, and he nailed it.

FTW ? LOL?


Ralphie Ciffaretto at 00:30

"C'mon, it's a tense situation, a little f#ckin levity, ah?"
post #1118 of 6080
Both sides sort of get fucked here. This might fall on deaf ears because of liberals crying wolf (Ferguson), yet it a roundabout way it gives credence to the b.s. Ferguson protests because it makes it look like this is an epidemic.
post #1119 of 6080
^ translation: "There's clearly a problem here (police overreach) but I don't want to admit there's a problem here (another black dude killed) or I'm suggesting the liberals might've had somewhat of a point despite the uncertainties shrouding the previous incident. Let's just ignore the fact that there are already major protests underway drawing attention to the Garner case. Better to say that we're all fucked because of the liberals."
post #1120 of 6080
Quote:
Originally Posted by erictheobscure View Post

^ translation: "There's clearly a problem here (police overreach) but I don't want to admit there's a problem here (another black dude killed) or I'm suggesting the liberals might've had somewhat of a point despite the uncertainties shrouding the previous incident. Let's just ignore the fact that there are already major protests underway drawing attention to the Garner case. Better to say that we're all fucked because of the liberals."

So not believing this is an epidemic is consistent with believing there's no problem at all? Don't waste my goddamn time with that shit.
post #1121 of 6080
Quote:
Originally Posted by suited View Post

So not believing this is an epidemic is consistent with believing there's no problem at all? Don't waste my goddamn time with that shit.

I didn't invoke the pathology metaphor here--you did. This entire thread is devoted to the sense that police overreach is a widespread problem. IIRC, your position is that you're aggrieved over police overreach and are concerned with it as it may or may not impact you in the future (could be wrong about that as being your position). The Ferguson case was about how police overreach is a widespread problem in poor black communities. So in that case, you want to invoke and deny the logic of epidemic ("I said it was a problem--but they say it's an epidemic and they cry wolf epidemic!").

I think it's consistent to say there's a widespread problem and it's particularly acute in poorer minority areas.
post #1122 of 6080
Here's another recent fatal shooting of an unarmed kid by a cop:
post #1123 of 6080
^ jesus christ
post #1124 of 6080
Why all the focus on Ferguson relative to Staten Island by the Justice Department and the NY media and NY activists like Al Sharpton

Four theories
1. The organized Ferguson protest movement and the attention of their allies in the media were part of the Democratic party's midterm election campaign. Their goal was to turnout African-American voters in Red states. A white cop shooting a kid in an inner ring suburb of St.Louis has more resonance for the target demo than broken windows policing going bad in Staten Island. Extra turnout in the urban NE has zero electoral value.
2. NYC has recently elected a far left mayor. He needs to consolidate power before he is ready to take on the NYPD. If DiBlasio can win a second term, watch out.
3. Most internet SJW's live in marginal parts of NYC, DC, and LA. They observe the police harassment of local minorities on a day-to-day basis which disturbs their sensibilities. However, the last thing they actually want is a lightening of the police presence in their own gentrifying neighborhoods. Much safer and more culturally satisfying to blame some redneck cop in flyover country.
4. Eric Garner was actually a peaceful guy while Michael Brown was a wannabe gangster with a lot of violent friends who destroyed stuff and attacked people when he got killed. Most of the protest movement basically consists of sick thrillseekers who enjoy being around violence and potential violence.
post #1125 of 6080
That's a pretty good illustration of how fucked up "justified" shootings can be. Cop got a report that "gangbangers" in the area had a gun. Cop shows up, sees Taylor, identifies him as a possible suspect apparently solely on looking like a gangbanger. Taylor doesn't immediately comply, could possibly have a gun in his pocket where his hands are. Gets shot. Doesn't have a gun. Officer's fear ruled justified anyway.


I mean, what's the take home message here? Apparently cops should not have to face the slightest risk before they shoot somebody. I understand it doesn't take long to draw a gun and shoot, but hooooly shit there's a happy medium there somewhere. You can't just have cops gunning people down on the street because they MIGHT have a gun, "compliant" or not.
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