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The Hong Kong Tailors Thread - Page 165

post #2461 of 3698
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeakMonday View Post

In the end all you can do is read the reviews... see the results... and then try one. No one can really predict how your suit will turn out because there are too many factors (tailor chosen, your competence in ordering a suit... Etc). Everyone's sartorial journey is unique. Don't take it too seriously and have some fun while you're at it. Good luck!

Exactly! How can I increase my competence? I have a list that I'll share (it's not edited well), of what I'm looking for. I want the tailor to do their thing but I want them to generally follow the below list. I have read countless times on this forum and elsewhere this statement "OTR looks better than most bespoke" and I want to avoid this.

 

suits:

no silk lining, need something breathable

fully canvassed

horn buttons

hand stitching on lapel etc (pick stitching)?

working buttonholes

natural/soft shoulder padding

suppressed waist?

A&S soft coat?

dual vents

2 buttons

two pairs of pants

 

trousers:

lining or no lining?

belt loops

suppressed waist?

suspender hooks

no pleats

no cuffs

no back pockets

 

patterns I like (find out what can be worn separately or as a suit only): prince of wales, herringbone, solid navy, any check, tweed

post #2462 of 3698
IL SARTO

Being a long term customer i just was told that it is normal if a premium priced suit - 16000 Hzk$ - with premium fabric falls apart / rips apart after what effectively was a two month usage. No acceptable replacement offered. One does not buy Mercedes and expect it last less than a Toyota, does one...?
Further to that inner lining seams where opening, buttons falling off, etc.

!!! BE WARNED !!! GO ELSEWHERE!
post #2463 of 3698
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfStartups View Post

Exactly! How can I increase my competence? I have a list that I'll share (it's not edited well), of what I'm looking for. I want the tailor to do their thing but I want them to generally follow the below list. I have read countless times on this forum and elsewhere this statement "OTR looks better than most bespoke" and I want to avoid this.

suits:
no silk lining, need something breathable
fully canvassed
horn buttons
hand stitching on lapel etc (pick stitching)?
working buttonholes
natural/soft shoulder padding
suppressed waist?
A&S soft coat?
dual vents
2 buttons
two pairs of pants
I've provided some feedback on thise tailors already. Just to add,silk linings breathe very well since it is a natural fabric, but it doesn't wear as long. That is why people prefer Bemberg Cupro which is also a natural fibre but wears longer. I also heard people use ermanzine but not seen it ever in Hk. Your list is very superficial and all tailors can do that. The more skilled ones will notice your particular body shape (slope of shoulders, length and proportion of torso, shoulder drops, etc) and manage accordingly. You will hear more bad reviews about travelling tailors because it is hard to get it right without several fittings sometimes, especially on first suit. Pick the tailor that you are comfortable with and work with them. If Chan's cost bother you, then you are not really going to work well with them because in the back of your mind you are thinking cost and not fit. Go with what fits your body rather than the trend. Eg Justin Timberlake fit on fat guys just look silly. Good hunting.
post #2464 of 3698
I wonder what material of your suit is.
Some Italian wool with high thread counts wear out easily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelFunke View Post

IL SARTO

Being a long term customer i just was told that it is normal if a premium priced suit - 16000 Hzk$ - with premium fabric falls apart / rips apart after what effectively was a two month usage. No acceptable replacement offered. One does not buy Mercedes and expect it last less than a Toyota, does one...?
Further to that inner lining seams where opening, buttons falling off, etc.

!!! BE WARNED !!! GO ELSEWHERE!
post #2465 of 3698
Zegna! I expect more than just a total of 2 month usage time!
post #2466 of 3698
And however, one does not pay for a Mercedes and receives a Toyota.
Full replacement was expected but rejected!
post #2467 of 3698
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfStartups View Post
"Sorry,we do not have the package deal or discount. For your information,the price is about HK$18,300 for a 2pcs suit,HK$12,800 for a jacket,HK$6,200 for a trousers [...] a shirt,it costs HK$1,360 up made with the Thomas Manson 100% cotton fabric. All prices are subject to change without further notification. Products charges [sic] would adhere to the latest pricing. "

 

Based on my very limited experience... Chan is actually pretty transparent on their pricing. If you visit their shop, there is a thick folder containing the price for each fabric (for jacket, pants, vest, and 2 piece or 3 piece is just adding them together). If you order, say, 1 jacket and 2 pairs of pants in one go, you will get a 10% off for the 2nd pair of pants (the staff says that's because they can save some cloths when cutting together, which may be true, but I see that as a kind of volume discount). Every now and then, they may offer an overall 10% for certain fabrics (the staff says that's because they have purchased a large lot and thus got a discount from that fabric supplier, e.g. Loro Piana, and thus they can pass the discount to the customer).

 

HK$ 18,300 can get you pretty good fabrics from the top tier fabric suppliers. There are definitely cheaper choices if you are not particular with the fabric.

 

Unlike some other "top tier" tailors in HK, Chan does not accept CMT. (Well, it seems that, in recent years, some other "top tier" tailors also do not accept CMT unless you're a repeating customer or you're referred by a repeating customer.)

 

It's unlikely that you will get definitive answer on which tailor is better - as the experiences from different people really differ (and even the same person getting suits made from the same tailor can vary suit by suit... with good tailors typically getting better and better as paper patterns are retained and thus improvements can be made). However, the advice that you should budget for ample time for fittings (both the time spent for each fitting and the number of fittings) is important, which I think is quite difficult for people not living in HK.

post #2468 of 3698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penfold View Post

I really think it's a waste of your time and money to look for an 'avant-garde' tailor in HK.
The makers here are really only capable of producing what they have done before: conventional business suits. Design input is limited to the shape and size of the lapel. The kind of thing in your photographs would be a total mystery to them IMHO and I doubt they'd know where to start.

Absolutely right, I doubt that they would want to do so simply because of the time taken which could be better spent on 'normal' garments.

You will not find any/many tailors in the Tuen Mun area given it is a backwater for visitors. You would need to go to TST or else Central/Admiralty or Wan Chai.
post #2469 of 3698
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfStartups View Post

Is that really what happened to WW Chan?

The fact that they won't discount a $10,000 USD order is baffling to me. 

The way I see it now: there's mytailor.com/Joe, Y William Yu, A MAN HING CHEONG and Gordon Yao. Basically, in that order, from cheapest to most expensive. As for quality, maybe Y William Yu is slightly below the others, and Gordon Yao may be the best, inching above AMHC by a point, but I think they are basically the same?

What I'm looking for is: Basic fabrics, stuff I can wear rough (I am not a gentle guy), for a six foot three mountain biker with huge legs. I want British styling conventions and British cloth (or at the very least, not Italian cloth. I equate Italian with less durable, maybe I'm wrong?). I want full canvas, soft shoulder (maybe some padding but not much), working buttonholes, hand stitching only when it's necessary, a clean suit and shirts, non-silk lining (since I sweat, but I forget the name of the fabric that's like silk but isn't sticky), colorful fabrics (especially w.r.t. shirts), double vents, no pleats, no cuffs. 

I don't understand "hard" vs "soft" coats. I've tried really hard. I look at a Huntsman suit and I look at an A&S suit and they both look nice.

I think any of those tailors will accomplish this? It doesn't have to be a perfect suit but it's gotta be better than OTR during sales at BG or Saks, not to mention, cheaper.

Can you help me? THANKS smile.gif

They don't discount anyway and why should they make a loss for you? Don't think that all markets behave in the same way, that is ridiculous.
post #2470 of 3698
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfStartups View Post

I find it hard to believe an Asian company not offering discounts on large orders. Tailors are the only holdouts in Asia that don't offer discounts for bulk orders?


they hate me but since these Asian tailors don't publish prices and it changes all the time they can do whatever they want. Thank you.

.

You simply do not understand how this market works and you are trying to make it conform to your idea of what it should be or do. It won't.

You should also understand that Asian tailors operate at the low end of the market, they best tailors have their origins in the Cantonese region.
post #2471 of 3698
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfStartups View Post

I welcome your suggestions on elsewhere to look. If you read my original post, I stated what I'm looking for and the price range. I believe I found four or five shops that will work. I asked for information on how to differentiate between them. What's wrong with that?

It's not "Asian" tailors, it's all of them, really. I distrust the practice really, as does most people here. Maybe distrust is the wrong word but ask 10 styleforum users a question about one tailor, and get 15 responses. It's worse than talking to a rabbi at Brandeis! :-) I approach things not as art per se, but as a mathematical system, and it's hard for me to feel like an informed consumer when I see people complain about just about every single bespoke suit posted here by any tailor, if any are posted at all, because people are afraid to post them because they are expecting to be ripped to shreds. It's a real problem. 

Since you're in Hong Kong and I'm planning on visiting soon (award tickets are wide open on AA over the next two months), I would love your input on how to differentiate between mytailor.com/Joe H, Y William Yu and Goron Yao. According to another poster, they can all make an English suit, but the posts I've seen on each tailor ends with the person not happy for whatever reason because they are off trying somebody else, searching for the bespoke holy grail... it leaves other consumers very, very confused. Thanks in advance.


Tailoring is an art, not a science, what is right for one person is not for another. Different tailors work in different ways and none will satisfy all. You must adapt to the market's ways.
post #2472 of 3698
Quote:
Originally Posted by GBR View Post


You simply do not understand how this market works and you are trying to make it conform to your idea of what it should be or do. It won't.

You should also understand that Asian tailors operate at the low end of the market, they best tailors have their origins in the Cantonese region.

Explain to me how this market is different than any other? A relationship based business goes both ways...the customer has rights and responsibilities, as does the business. Do I really need to explain the benefits to a company to offer bulk ordering discounts? You seem to be blinded for your love of all things sartorial and the mystic that's created around it. At its core, it is a business. A ruthless one that has seen massive downsizing and M&A.

 

As I write this, another email notification comes in and now you are up to three posts in a row chastising me. I can see how you have 6k posts. The complaints are numerous when it comes to bespoke. From the fit sucks to complaining that they take months longer for orders to tailors just shutting up shop and running off with the money. Keep operating in the same fashion if you want but I don't see it getting any better. 

 

When I go to my local flower shop, I know the owners and they know me. We have created a relationship over the years which includes, yes, special discounts to keep my loyalty. There are five other flower shops in walking distance, they have to do something to retain me. I don't ask them to grow flowers quicker, or have flowers that no one else has in stock, just like I didn't demand that I violate the laws of economics and not appreciate scaling in this situation: I didn't say because I am ordering 10k worth of merchandise, they must violate said laws and provide me all the merchandise tomorrow! Obviously that's unreasonable and probably not possible.

 

I find it funny I am arguing for capitalism. Might be the first time I've ever done that. haha

post #2473 of 3698
Which line of Zegna?
I have both Trofeo and Traveller at my wardrobe - they are still in excellent condition after 2,3 years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelFunke View Post

And however, one does not pay for a Mercedes and receives a Toyota.
Full replacement was expected but rejected!
post #2474 of 3698
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfStartups View Post

 

I find it funny I am arguing for capitalism. Might be the first time I've ever done that. haha

 

Wild guess but that new job which requires 15k's worth of suits and shirts is not at a non-profit, right? 

 

There are package deals offered by some of the tailor shops in Hong Kong.  8k HKD gets you two suits and two shirts, that kind of thing.  Generally these places are at the lower end of the range and don't appeal to SF posters, so we never hear much about them.  Likely the fabric is no-name garbage and the suit will put together in a Shenzhen workshop using fused construction.  

The middle and top end of the market sell themselves more on perceived quality, refinement etc and discounting is pretty unlikely I'm afraid.  Getting suits made is a bit of an ego trip for a lot of people and the laws of supply and demand don't apply in quite the same way.  Many people think that the concept of Veblen Goods is relevant here - beyond that you might also consider that supply is fairly constrained as production is not easily scaleable.  Natural variation in demand is dealt with by delaying production where possible and prioritising workload.  

 

Are you in the USA out of interest?  If so, where? There are one or two operations which are based Stateside, measure you up there but make in HK.  Spoon Tailors in San Francisco being perhaps the best example. http://www.styleforum.net/t/225112/spoon-tailor-hong-kong-bespoke-operation-in-san-francisco/240

 

On the YWY vs Gordon Yao comparison I wrote one back in February. http://www.styleforum.net/t/33568/the-hong-kong-tailors-thread/2145#post_7680319

post #2475 of 3698

If you see them in person with multiples orders at a time, you may be able to ask some sort of discount if you ask nicely.

I think  they would not give a discount on internet based inquiry.

 

You must be very lucky to get your suits spot on for the first try from both style and fitting point of view.

In the thread there are recent unhappy customers' report of Chan and Yao who commissioned suits with tight schedule.

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