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The Hong Kong Tailors Thread - Page 161

post #2401 of 3698
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigbigJohnny View Post

I believe Chan could do a bit quicker than 8 days from my experience

You also don't want to rush them
post #2402 of 3698
Quote:
Originally Posted by bapelolol View Post

Thanks for the responses. When is peak season for HK tailoring? I'm thinking of going in Nov/Dec.

Peak season is the run-up to Chinese New Year when the demand for new clothes is highest. Prices normally rise after CNY so people buy before then too. Then over the Lunar New Year itself the workshops shut down totally.
Nov/Dec should be ok if you've made advance arrangements with a chosen tailor who can arrange his workflow accordingly.
FYI WW Chan's head cutter Patrick will be away from Hong Kong through most of Nov and early Dec touring the world. Then he'll probably not be back in harness at their HK premises until Dec 10th or so at a guess.
I think, based on the experience of Bloomsbury2k above, that it's not worth paying the premium for Chan unless you can be measured and fitted by Patrick. Now if you could attend a tour date and could choose cloth, pay a deposit and be measured up first then that would be sensible. This is Chan's road warrior schedule for Nov/Dec 2015
post #2403 of 3698


What in the world??

Stoped into H. Baroman today and was quote a fabric.
Kenny mentioned it's Scabal but I'm not sure what in the world it is.

ANY HELP? LP?


Has anyone heard of Diamond Jubilee Finest Tasmania Super 150?
post #2404 of 3698

Scabal, like Holland & Sherry, is a bit of a mystery to me.  Are they producing from their own mills, or buying in from other producers to sell on as merchants?  The bunches change a lot and the website is obfuscatory, to put it mildly.

 

Try asking on the Unfunded Liabilities thread maybe.

post #2405 of 3698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penfold View Post

Scabal, like Holland & Sherry, is a bit of a mystery to me.  Are they producing from their own mills, or buying in from other producers to sell on as merchants?  The bunches change a lot and the website is obfuscatory, to put it mildly.

Try asking on the Unfunded Liabilities thread maybe.



Thanks Mr. Penfold.

I 80% confirmed its a Chinese fabric when I showed Ricky at Dream. He was nice enough to laugh it up and shake his head politely.

I'll try posting in the UL thread.
post #2406 of 3698
Well, are we 100% sure that none of Scabal's fabrics are made in China?
post #2407 of 3698
Quote:
Originally Posted by chobochobo View Post

Well, are we 100% sure that none of Scabal's fabrics are made in China?


I still can't say if this fabric is Scabal.  As the minutes go by I strongly feel it is not, and Kenny from Baroman purported to me that it was.  This is the issue here and he asked me to keep the price confidential.  On a side note, I believed Scabal owns Bower & Roebuck, although only a percentage of their production is for Scabal itself. 

 

After showing the photo at WWChan's, their assistant manger said in the ten years he has been working there he has yet to see this fabric. 

post #2408 of 3698
I have had no dealings with Baroman, but if I was told that a certain funnily named fabric was made by a more famous name, I'd probably take it with a pinch of salt too.
post #2409 of 3698
Why need to keep it condifential? Because he offer you a special price ?
post #2410 of 3698
I was shown the same fabric at Baromon and was told it's a UK fabric.
post #2411 of 3698

The thing with fabrics nowadays is that there is an increasing divide between the (i) merchants - such as Scabal and Holland & Sherry that Penfold mentioned (some of which have been taken over by larger Chinese and US groups), and (ii) the mills that actually weave the fabrics. Some merchants own their own mills, but this doesn't stop them from "outsourcing" the production of certain lines to mills not owned by them. As Baromatic said, Scabal owns the mill/shed Bower Roebuck. But Bower Roebuck produces its own lines, just as Scabal gets other lines from other "unknown" mills. I suppose the long and short of it is that while tailoring houses are likely to be in the know whether a certain mill produces for a certain named merchant, there is always the possibility that they have been misinformed. And while the named merchants and mills are more likely to produce quality products (but not always!), this doesn't mean unknown ones don't.

 

At the end of the day you need to feel the handle of the cloth for yourself. Ask to handle a Scabal, a Golden Bale or a Holland & Sherry, and the differences with poorly-made Chinese imitations will jump out at you. But if you don't manage to do this, perhaps its best to go with one with a selvedge screaming SCABAL or HARDY MINNIS to be on the safe side. Although there is yet another possibility that some bales from the named mills don't even have selvedges on them so... well, all a bit of a muddle really. But good luck and I hope you find what you're looking for.

post #2412 of 3698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penfold View Post

Scabal, like Holland & Sherry, is a bit of a mystery to me.  Are they producing from their own mills, or buying in from other producers to sell on as merchants?  The bunches change a lot and the website is obfuscatory, to put it mildly.

Try asking on the Unfunded Liabilities thread maybe.

Most of the big names of British fabrics, e.g.Scabal, Holland & Sherry, Harrisons, H Lesser, Smith Woollens are actually merchants. They are cooperating with different mills and finishers to provide various bunches.

Holland & Sherry was acquired by a US bepoke tailoring group called Tom James, which owns mills in Chile. After acquisition, some of the production line has been naturally moved to Chile while leaving the better collections still being made in the UK.

It is also a well known fact that only part of those superior collections of Scabal are made in the UK.

For Harrisons-LBD group, we can assure that ALL fabrics of Harrisons, H Lesser, Porter and Harding and W Bill are made in the UK(either England or Scotland). Most of Smith Woollens are made in the UK while remaining are made in Italy.
post #2413 of 3698
Quote:
Originally Posted by chobochobo View Post

I have had no dealings with Baroman, but if I was told that a certain funnily named fabric was made by a more famous name, I'd probably take it with a pinch of salt too.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigbigJohnny View Post

Why need to keep it condifential? Because he offer you a special price ?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by exodos View Post

I was shown the same fabric at Baromon and was told it's a UK fabric.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterampage View Post
 

The thing with fabrics nowadays is that there is an increasing divide between the (i) merchants - such as Scabal and Holland & Sherry that Penfold mentioned (some of which have been taken over by larger Chinese and US groups), and (ii) the mills that actually weave the fabrics. Some merchants own their own mills, but this doesn't stop them from "outsourcing" the production of certain lines to mills not owned by them. As Baromatic said, Scabal owns the mill/shed Bower Roebuck. But Bower Roebuck produces its own lines, just as Scabal gets other lines from other "unknown" mills. I suppose the long and short of it is that while tailoring houses are likely to be in the know whether a certain mill produces for a certain named merchant, there is always the possibility that they have been misinformed. And while the named merchants and mills are more likely to produce quality products (but not always!), this doesn't mean unknown ones don't.

 

At the end of the day you need to feel the handle of the cloth for yourself. Ask to handle a Scabal, a Golden Bale or a Holland & Sherry, and the differences with poorly-made Chinese imitations will jump out at you. But if you don't manage to do this, perhaps its best to go with one with a selvedge screaming SCABAL or HARDY MINNIS to be on the safe side. Although there is yet another possibility that some bales from the named mills don't even have selvedges on them so... well, all a bit of a muddle really. But good luck and I hope you find what you're looking for.


It's interesting the concept of procurement in the fabric manufacturing industry.  Napoli of olden times held a horizontal type structure for leather, a product that made the city popular, however its not uncommon in fabrication to see a beginning-to-end vertical procurement process for wool.  The co-habitation of manufacture and merchant probably helped culture the city to create its identity.  If you have been to Napoli you will see that it is a blue collar city and the identity of this type business structure (separation of manu/merchant) becomes further apparent in how it shaped its representation worldwide. 

As chobochobo says, it would seem funny to see a funny name and that is what made me curious to share the photo here.  Why the pricing was asked to be kept confidential could be of a few reasons.  One, to ensure to the consumer a sense of trust and to establish rapport with honesty.  Second, to make a scenario where exclusive pricing to a potential new customer could "seal the deal".  Third, to flat out hope that one does not go out and tell others that the quoted price for said fabric is $XXXX dollars and have an ill effect on the business because one was selling quasi quality or using a bait-and-switch technique.  Of course, SF members do more due diligence then the average tourist suit enthusiast so I'm not sure how the above reasoning would be beneficial. 

The sales pitch went from showing priced Scabal at $15k, to quoting lower pricing for the subject fabric at $9k, and in finale the out the door price of $8.5k all with asking for favorable internet feedback on the business operation and confidentiality for said two piece quote.  There is NO confidentiality for quoted prices (hiding quotes, in this case a first time customer) in an open market.  Transparency is the ethical practice (i.e pricing sheet quoting systems) and I commend those who adhere to transparency. 

 

Of course, it could all be a "I don't know what I don't know" situation, however this is my pinch-of-salt thought/intuition and the way I analyze what happened. 

 

-- On a side note, Merino Bros.  I'd like to stop in to see some jacketing from Harrisons as its always been on my buy list :colgate:

post #2414 of 3698
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by baromatic View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chobochobo View Post

I have had no dealings with Baroman, but if I was told that a certain funnily named fabric was made by a more famous name, I'd probably take it with a pinch of salt too.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigbigJohnny View Post

Why need to keep it condifential? Because he offer you a special price ?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by exodos View Post

I was shown the same fabric at Baromon and was told it's a UK fabric.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterampage View Post
 

The thing with fabrics nowadays is that there is an increasing divide between the (i) merchants - such as Scabal and Holland & Sherry that Penfold mentioned (some of which have been taken over by larger Chinese and US groups), and (ii) the mills that actually weave the fabrics. Some merchants own their own mills, but this doesn't stop them from "outsourcing" the production of certain lines to mills not owned by them. As Baromatic said, Scabal owns the mill/shed Bower Roebuck. But Bower Roebuck produces its own lines, just as Scabal gets other lines from other "unknown" mills. I suppose the long and short of it is that while tailoring houses are likely to be in the know whether a certain mill produces for a certain named merchant, there is always the possibility that they have been misinformed. And while the named merchants and mills are more likely to produce quality products (but not always!), this doesn't mean unknown ones don't.

 

At the end of the day you need to feel the handle of the cloth for yourself. Ask to handle a Scabal, a Golden Bale or a Holland & Sherry, and the differences with poorly-made Chinese imitations will jump out at you. But if you don't manage to do this, perhaps its best to go with one with a selvedge screaming SCABAL or HARDY MINNIS to be on the safe side. Although there is yet another possibility that some bales from the named mills don't even have selvedges on them so... well, all a bit of a muddle really. But good luck and I hope you find what you're looking for.


It's interesting the concept of procurement in the fabric manufacturing industry.  Napoli of olden times held a horizontal type structure for leather, a product that made the city popular, however its not uncommon in fabrication to see a beginning-to-end vertical procurement process for wool.  The co-habitation of manufacture and merchant probably helped culture the city to create its identity.  If you have been to Napoli you will see that it is a blue collar city and the identity of this type business structure (separation of manu/merchant) becomes further apparent in how it shaped its representation worldwide. 

As chobochobo says, it would seem funny to see a funny name and that is what made me curious to share the photo here.  Why the pricing was asked to be kept confidential could be of a few reasons.  One, to ensure to the consumer a sense of trust and to establish rapport with honesty.  Second, to make a scenario where exclusive pricing to a potential new customer could "seal the deal".  Third, to flat out hope that one does not go out and tell others that the quoted price for said fabric is $XXXX dollars and have an ill effect on the business because one was selling quasi quality or using a bait-and-switch technique.  Of course, SF members do more due diligence then the average tourist suit enthusiast so I'm not sure how the above reasoning would be beneficial. 

The sales pitch went from showing priced Scabal at $15k, to quoting lower pricing for the subject fabric at $9k, and in finale the out the door price of $8.5k all with asking for favorable internet feedback on the business operation and confidentiality for said two piece quote.  There is NO confidentiality for quoted prices (hiding quotes, in this case a first time customer) in an open market.  Transparency is the ethical practice (i.e pricing sheet quoting systems) and I commend those who adhere to transparency. 

 

Of course, it could all be a "I don't know what I don't know" situation, however this is my pinch-of-salt thought/intuition and the way I analyze what happened. 

 

-- On a side note, Merino Bros.  I'd like to stop in to see some jacketing from Harrisons as its always been on my buy list :colgate:

 

 

 

 

It could be from Bower Roebuck if the quality statement of the selvedge is correct and actually woven in UK.  The salesperson might have taken most liberal interpretation of made by "Scabal".

I am guessing as I have Bower Roebuck fabric without names of mills nor merchant on the selvedge and without the country of production (but without those aster risk like symbols).  I think Scabal brand fabric should have Scabal name and "made in UK"  if it is from UK mill woven on the selvedge.   Statement on the selvedge is very "grand" and it makes me more suspicious though...

post #2415 of 3698

Minnis Fresco blazer suits - one in 'French Navy' 516, one in the old SF classic  520, from Lai sifu.

 

 


 

More photos (Click to show)

 

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