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Napoli su Misura Interview - Part II - Page 2

post #16 of 33
^^^ That is key. Apparently learning to be a good tailor doesn't necessarily teach you to do good business. Honestly, that is one of Mariano's greatest contributions to his enterprise. Leadership and management.
post #17 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post


The one thing that may be truly constant and unique of Neapolitan bespoke is the lightness and softness of the construction. But most mass-produced Neapolitan stuff doesn't have that.

 

I would consider this the defining difference. Puffed sleevehead, etc., are moving targets and just stylistic filligree.

 

Time and again when I speak to NSM they emphasize construction, construction, construction and softness and that is what they are proud of. They have always said to abandon assumptions about sleevehead, quarter linings, slimness, etc., and if anything seem eager to quash those preconceptions.

post #18 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprout2 View Post

I would consider this the defining difference. Puffed sleevehead, etc., are moving targets and just stylistic filligree.

Time and again when I speak to NSM they emphasize construction, construction, construction and softness and that is what they are proud of. They have always said to abandon assumptions about sleevehead, quarter linings, slimness, etc., and if anything seem eager to quash those preconceptions.

That sounds right to me.
post #19 of 33
I would consider that construction technique the root that holds them together, but the stylistic things are not trivial. While the sleevehead treatment, when written about, seems to flatten the technique into some cartoonish, oversimplified thing - and the reality is much more complex and varied when actually executed (if executed at all) - these are stylistic features the help form what we understand to be a regional look. It's not just about lightness and softness; it's also about the stylistic things Matt talked about.

Again, just because when you actually compare these things across the board, and the stylistic features (when existent) don't look anything like each other, that doesn't mean there's no regional look. Just as, if I were to stand next to my mother and father, none of us actually look alike if you were to compare in specific terms. But if you step back, there's a familial resemblance. There's no reason to ignore the familial resemblance just because things aren't matched up like photocopies.

There's also no reason, IMO, to dichotomize this problem - that is, either stretch back to the early 20th century and say the cut has remained the same, or that there has never been a Neapolitan cut at all. Just as there's no reason to think that I either look exactly like my great grandfather, or that we're not related at all. These things move, and there's evolution, but there's also a real bloodline that we can draw out.
post #20 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

I would consider that construction technique the root that holds them together, but the stylistic things are not trivial. While the sleevehead treatment, when written about, seems to flatten the technique into some cartoonish, oversimplified thing - and the reality is much more complex and varied when actually executed (if executed at all) - these are stylistic features the help form what we understand to be a regional look. It's not just about lightness and softness; it's also about the stylistic things Matt talked about.

Again, just because when you actually compare these things across the board, and the stylistic features (when existent) don't look anything like each other, that doesn't mean there's no regional look. Just as, if I were to stand next to my mother and father, none of us actually look alike if you were to compare in specific terms. But if you step back, there's a familial resemblance. There's no reason to ignore the familial resemblance just because things aren't matched up like photocopies..

From my admittedly limited research, I agree there are distinct regional styles. I had these saved on my HD:


post #21 of 33
Translation?
post #22 of 33

All I have to add is that they sure make a handsome suit in Florence.
 

post #23 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlaneurNYC View Post

From my admittedly limited research, I agree there are distinct regional styles. I had these saved on my HD:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


I would not rely on a magazine to make these distinctions for me. All I can tell you is that going to Naples, spending time there, seeing how people dress, browsing the shops, observing what different tailors do, and reading about the history of tailoring in the city, etc., yields a far more complicated story. Things do not package so neatly.

In my previous post, I already dissected many of the features that supposedly define Neapolitan tailoring. At the end of the day, very little is concrete. The more you try to make things concrete, the more you wind up with something that is more cartoon than anything else. That cartoon is what is most broadly marketed.
post #24 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlaneurNYC View Post

From my admittedly limited research, I agree there are distinct regional styles. I had these saved on my HD:



Wasn't this from Men's Ex several years ago? They had a similar issue regarding shirts as well.

Japanese/East Asians loves to systematically stereotyping everything. And I do think it's very valid for RTW purposes due to magazine influences and store buyers requests.
post #25 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

...
Japanese/East Asians loves to systematically stereotyping everything.

Like what you're doing? smile.gif
post #26 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by bboysdontcryy View Post

Like what you're doing? smile.gif

Scientific method - taking the romance out of arts.
post #27 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

I would not rely on a magazine to make these distinctions for me. All I can tell you is that going to Naples, spending time there, seeing how people dress, browsing the shops, observing what different tailors do, and reading about the history of tailoring in the city, etc., yields a far more complicated story. Things do not package so neatly.

In my previous post, I already dissected many of the features that supposedly define Neapolitan tailoring. At the end of the day, very little is concrete. The more you try to make things concrete, the more you wind up with something that is more cartoon than anything else. That cartoon is what is most broadly marketed.

I would love nothing more than to return to Naples with my eye toward tailoring rather than just going to Naples (which is how I approached my previous trip). Time being short these days, that will have to be put off a bit longer. Boots on the ground is the absolute best way to get a feel for something -- especially the esoteric.

While I agree that there is sometimes a cartoonish sensibility in much of what is now being foisted on the #menswear crowd in reference to Neapolitan tailoring, from experience I've had with Italians (I was in a relationship for almost ten years with an Italian from Torino), they sometimes see things through the lens of tipica della (insert region here). Whether that item is food or tailoring.

So while there may be a caricature version pushed by those trying to get their products out there, there are also subtle differences that combine to create a more nuanced tipica della regione.

.
Edited by FlaneurNYC - 2/9/13 at 6:47am
post #28 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprout2 View Post

All I have to add is that they sure make a handsome suit in Florence.
 

 

looks exactly what maomao had made in florence:

 

medium800.jpg

 

http://www.styleforum.net/t/301187/maomao-x-gaz-italian-sartorial-adventure-2012/105#post_5615436

 

http://www.styleforum.net/t/301187/maomao-x-gaz-italian-sartorial-adventure-2012/120#post_5623954

post #29 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

Wasn't this from Men's Ex several years ago? They had a similar issue regarding shirts as well.

Japanese/East Asians loves to systematically stereotyping everything. And I do think it's very valid for RTW purposes due to magazine influences and store buyers requests.

Yes. It's from February 2010.
post #30 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlaneurNYC View Post


I would love nothing more than to return to Naples with my eye toward tailoring rather than just going to Naples (which is how I approached my previous trip). Time being short these days, that will have to be put off a bit longer. Boots on the ground is the absolute best way to get a feel for something -- especially the esoteric.

While I agree that there is sometimes a cartoonish sensibility in much of what is now being foisted on the #menswear crowd in reference to Neapolitan tailoring, from experience I've had with Italians (I was in a relationship for almost ten years with an Italian from Torino), they sometimes see things through the lens of tipica della (insert region here). Whether that item is food or tailoring.

So while there may be a caricature version pushed by those trying to get their products out there, there are also subtle differences that combine to create a more nuanced tipica della regione.

.

well being a Torinese (aka a inabitant of that beautifull city that is Turin) I couldn't but agree more! I love Napoli style but in Torino you can see close to no one wearing a suit like Rubinacci's , Kiton or anything remotely related to Napoli look ; Here everyone was wearing gray suit with white shirt and black tie for 50years, was called "grigio FIAT" ,grey fiat, due to the enormous quantity of white collars Fiat workers wearing all the same things!(Turin has been and still is the centre of Fiat Industries).

The style used to be and largely still is very large suits with very large trousairs, unshaped to say it shortly smile.gif

 

Luckly it is changing as the nice shops in the centre are starting more and more to sell Isaia,Kiton,Caruso,Cantarelli and so on ; so you finally see men dressed nicely also here! 

 

It is absolutely correct what you say of the "tipica della regione" : in Torino ,which is 100 km from Milano, you can spot a "Milanese" guy from two km far as their style is so much different ,let alone a Roman  or "Fiorentino"; historically this is due to the fact that we are a very young nation and till 150 years ago we were notthing but a confused mix of little kingdoms .

 

Sorry for the boring "historical" lessoncolgate.gif I realize it must sound utterly boring to most but it always fascinates me how people from abroad see my cowntry in any aspect; off course in here there is mainly an Educated crowd which is capable of discern from the folklore that you can see in Eat,Pray,Love ,our former sexual addict maniac former Prime Minister , The Godfather  and what Italy (also) is.

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