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What are your thoughts on natural leather items (i.e. belts, wallets, etc.)? - Page 3

post #31 of 46
OP doesn't suck, but he's come here with the wrong frame of reference.
post #32 of 46

I think natural leather items are pretty cool- especially when they age. However

I also feel like when you first get them- especially if they are not

edge burnished- look a bit tacky

post #33 of 46
While I have not been there that long, I have been here more than many other members. My low post count signifies that I am more of a reader than active participant, so my observer role allows me to have a more objective role. Foo and Doc have touched on the big issue: reciprocity. Answering the same question repeatedly leads to diminishing returns and a lack of reciprocal enjoyment. This place was a forum of information, collectivism, and an overall desire for the learning of style. I agree that it has become much more brand oriented, which mirrors the entire fashion industry. While we can bemoan the change, the change is happening and will continue to happen as long as global behemoths swallow up companies left and right. When Brioni and Anthony Delos are being absorbed into the same companies as Gucci and Sephora, you know that a macro change is occurring.
post #34 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by usctrojans31 View Post

While I have not been there that long, I have been here more than many other members. My low post count signifies that I am more of a reader than active participant, so my observer role allows me to have a more objective role. Foo and Doc have touched on the big issue: reciprocity. Answering the same question repeatedly leads to diminishing returns and a lack of reciprocal enjoyment. This place was a forum of information, collectivism, and an overall desire for the learning of style. I agree that it has become much more brand oriented, which mirrors the entire fashion industry. While we can bemoan the change, the change is happening and will continue to happen as long as global behemoths swallow up companies left and right. When Brioni and Anthony Delos are being absorbed into the same companies as Gucci and Sephora, you know that a macro change is occurring.

Yes, reciprocity is a sort of a problem. But back when the "inner sanctum" was intact, we could at least entertain each other.

Also, something important to note about the change toward a more brand-oriented environment: it's actually a regression.

Styleforum pre-2006/2007 was much like it is today. Mostly RTW and high-end MTM. So, Brioni, Kiton, etc., were sort of holy grails. Then, a number of things happened. Ask Andy About Clothes, the former forum champ for classic menswear and bespoke clothing, collapsed under whip-handed moderation. Everyone migrated to Styleforum, and the forum here became far more bespoke-oriented. MTM became something of a folly to pursue. Between 2007 and 2011/2012, nobody talked about Brioni or Kiton because we all looked down on them. If you couldn't afford good bespoke, you aspired to it and made do with altered RTW in the mean time. Much discussion was about either bespoke orders or the bespoke process.

Now, I pop in threads and it's 2006 all over again. Rome has fallen and we've entered the Dark Ages.
post #35 of 46
Well, we didn't all aspire to it. And I don't really think a lack of bespoke discussion is the main problem today. A symptom, yes, but not the primary ailment.

The threads that had the most value then, at least to me, offered thoughtful discussion of how clothes are worn, not just made or bought. There's little of that now.
post #36 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocHolliday View Post

Well, we didn't all aspire to it. And I don't really think a lack of bespoke discussion is the main problem today. A symptom, yes, but not the primary ailment.

The threads that had the most value then, at least to me, offered thoughtful discussion of how clothes are worn, not just made or bought. There's little of that now.

Quoted because I agree (especially on the latter point).

Posting just to say that Foo returning has been great, as is Doc's presence. Both didn't post much when I first joined a few months ago.

I don't know how long you guys will stick around, but the longer the better. Hopefully you'll bring the best out in other posters soon enough to make this a rewarding experience again.

Foo, I sort of feel bad about the deluge of "good taste" fits in whnay's thread...none are offensive or in particularly poor taste, but most aren't interesting enough to warrant comment either.

And as somebody mentioned, the WAYWRN thread has been absolute balls lately. Spoo and Charlies Wardrobe holding down the fort almost single handedly (with uprcrust and sb providing consistent backup). I'd love it if old timers recycled fit pics into that thread; I think it would encourage the very new members to lurk more before posting.
post #37 of 46

Branding and a hyperfocus on "look" are indeed a huge part of the problem. Brand marketing has vectored expectations to the point where people want to emulate what they see in a single image rather than the whole experience of a person. It has also created the expectation that you can pick out an ensemble of items and thus look like the model in a given photograph, which never happens. Which is why these "looks" look increasingly like costumes. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickFR View Post

I think natural leather items are pretty cool- especially when they age. However

I also feel like when you first get them- especially if they are not

edge burnished- look a bit tacky

 

Obtuse answer to obtuse question.

 

What is the alternative to "natural" leather? Bonded leather? Vinyl?

 

An item traditionally made of leather, such as a wallet, does not need to be made of leather, but if it is made from something other than leather, it had better not attempt to look like leather. That would be "tacky."

 

Additionally, a good leather item will look good both when it is new as well when it has been well worn. It may look different, but not "tacky." 

 

Any leather item which has been made to look older artificially, such as through "antiquing", or, in the case of shoes, have an exaggerated curl out of the box so that they look like they've been worn continuously for a year without treeing - now that's really "tacky."

post #38 of 46

Wow, I just joined this forum and if you guys are wondering why it's gone "down the tubes" it's because idiots are posting non related crap in threads. If you think the quality of these forums are declining then don't be an obstacle, instead, be the solution and contribute quality posts. 

 

Is there not a moderator to move this non-related crap to a new thread?

 

*now back to why I was reading this thread*

 

I'm a big fan of natural leather products. They will last a long time and thus are good for my (leather) wallet. While leather products may cost more upfront I think it's longevity will help save money. It also forces me to buy more "timeless" clothing/accesories since I'll be spending more and it will last longer I want to make sure that it isn't going to fall out of style. So I would disagree with the statement that it's a hipster trend. Or call me hipster. 

post #39 of 46

Hi,

 

Well, society has changed guys. The young people are not interested in complicated procedures, explanations... They want fast answers. That is why you see a lot of threads with "simple questions". The brands are everything in the eyes of most people buying today. The 2 questions asked are "which brand and how much was it?" The lowest price and the most known brands are the best answer. uhoh.gif

 

People believe that buying MTM is the holy grail of shopping today. Kiton and Brioni are in fact very big names (include Tom Ford in the pack for now because it is the brand of James Bond). Include Armani, Burberry, Paul Smith and others... The list is very long... angry.gif

 

Less and less people know something about real quality and "good brands" of fabrics or real tailors of the world... Sad thing... frown.gif

 

I consider myself a beginner in real quality and great construction but this website is helping me to learn (archives mostly). 

 

Thank you.

post #40 of 46

Scabal Fanatic, what about high end M2M? Not Indochino or some seedy chinese M2M shirt maker, but a place where you actually go in to a shop and a numerous amount of measurements are taken and faxed off and constructed with high end fabrics and hand finished...? And then when it's complete, you're brought in for a second fitting to have a tailor finish off anything that wasn't picked up initially.

 

I believe that high end M2M fills some sort of a price gap between full bespoke and high end RTW clothing. And in DC, I can get my suit M2M for about 700-800, total as opposed to something more outrageous near Capitol Hill, I.E. Fields.

 

It could just be the sartorial landscape of DC that makes me think that, though...

post #41 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjc320 View Post

Wow, I just joined this forum and if you guys are wondering why it's gone "down the tubes" it's because idiots are posting non related crap in threads. If you think the quality of these forums are declining then don't be an obstacle, instead, be the solution and contribute quality posts. 

Is there not a moderator to move this non-related crap to a new thread?

*now back to why I was reading this thread*

I'm a big fan of natural leather products. They will last a long time and thus are good for my (leather) wallet. While leather products may cost more upfront I think it's longevity will help save money. It also forces me to buy more "timeless" clothing/accesories since I'll be spending more and it will last longer I want to make sure that it isn't going to fall out of style. So I would disagree with the statement that it's a hipster trend. Or call me hipster. 

I promise that I will not call you a hipster, but I will call you obtuse.

This forum is dedicated to classic menswear. Under that paradigm "natural leather" is the only option, and for someone to post a question posed as if that it is merely an option as opposed to, say, "unnatural leather" is patently ridiculous. Which is why everyone is grousing. Which they are free to do.
post #42 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjc320 View Post

Wow, I just joined this forum and if you guys are wondering why it's gone "down the tubes" it's because idiots are posting non related crap in threads. If you think the quality of these forums are declining then don't be an obstacle, instead, be the solution and contribute quality posts. 

Is there not a moderator to move this non-related crap to a new thread?

*now back to why I was reading this thread*

I'm a big fan of natural leather products. They will last a long time and thus are good for my (leather) wallet. While leather products may cost more upfront I think it's longevity will help save money. It also forces me to buy more "timeless" clothing/accesories since I'll be spending more and it will last longer I want to make sure that it isn't going to fall out of style. So I would disagree with the statement that it's a hipster trend. Or call me hipster. 

How to address your post...hmm...I think that I'll keep on living my life.
post #43 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Participation appears to be way down, first of all.

Second, the subject matter has completely changed. Now, it's 90% retail and brand oriented. We are just a step or two away from being the GQ forum. Lots of questions about whether something is fashionable. Little to no experience left amongst active members with legitimate classic style or tailored clothing. Just neophytes mimicking Mad Men or Pitti. There are more discussions now about doing alterations to RTW than there are about bespoke tailors. That's telling.

So true, it is a shame but commercialisation of the Forum rules and so the focus was changed for us.
post #44 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchacho View Post

Where else on the internet would I be able to find something like the golden days of SF at this point in time? 

Also, sorry to OP for derailing your thread.

The thread was a curious one with no useful purpose so do not worry about that - The London Lounge does confine it self to the core subject.
post #45 of 46
I'm in the leather business so I'm interested in what this thread is supposed to be about. You want to discuss something else... start another thread. You are wasting my time reading the distractions. So, about "natural leather" ... natural is just a buzz word. Leather isn't natural though vegetable tanned leather has been made for thousands of years. Kind of a necessity since man is a rather vulnerable animal so needed to wear another animals skin. I think the allure of "natural" leather is because so many things that were made of leather are now made of other crap that doesn't last, even finishing splits to look like top grain leather, then stamping it "Genuine Leather". Customers are telling me they want something that will break in and be uniquely theirs. They seem to want that wallet they might find in the bottom drawer of an antique bureau they just found in an attic. Like one member mentioned that doesn't happen instantly and you can't fake it. You have to work for awhile to get that instant gratification. So what actually is natural leather? I've actually had people ask me for untanned leather.
Ever been in school and the first day is just learning terms, the same as the first page of a legal document. In discussions of natural leather I see a lack of understanding of terms. Too many to fully discuss here. Lets just say that when asked for natural leather I take that to mean Oak tanned unfinished leather as it comes from the tannery. Never mind the difference between calfskin and cowhide, drum tanned and pit tanned. It is open grain and will absorb oil and water. Moisture softens it, oil darkens it. It starts off almost white unless it is tanned with some extract ( that I can't remember the name of) added, then it is slightly pink. Sunlight darkens it, you wouldn't want to display it in a store window. Fluorescent light will do it too. With use there is no way it will stay the same. Trying to clean it will just make it darker.
Customers used to want their leather goods to stay looking like new and the makers wanted their products to stay looking good, otherwise they got complaints, however, I can understand why young people want the natural leather. One good thing is that there is no way to fake it, so if the stitching is good you will get a product that lasts, it just will get old and dirty looking.
I've been a member here for awhile and get a good amount of business from links customers have left here. I check back links from my website and read some threads but don't post often... last post may have been 10 years ago. It's a way of keeping up with what customers want. Thanks to the people who have left the good feedback and links. SO... what do you guys think of natural leather??? Who made it popular??? Red Moon? OOPs, don't want to discuss branding in this thread.
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