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post #121 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivwri View Post

This is one of the things that makes me really excited about his business model. The idea that a piece of clothing can be saved up for and purchased like picking up an Eames chair or some other expensive design object. That anxiety associated with looking at something you want and hoping it hits sales and gets into your price bracket is no longer there.

Yeah, it's a major thing for me. I want to plan my purchases. If it's going to be expensive, so be it. I'd rather have the security of knowing I'm not making a rash purchase.
post #122 of 139
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionheart Biker View Post

Are you planning on getting anything from the current stock, Iwvri?  Or might you be waiting for some other items to come out?

If it is still available when I have the cash, I really want the veil jacket. Other than that, my wish list looks something like:

One of the funeral suits (Ideally the trumpet suit for maximum volume in the pants biggrin.gif), a pair of the Mongolia trousers and tshirt in lighter fabrics, veil pocket with strap (if the ones on the jacket are not detachable) and another shiva bag.

Will most likely wait until his spring collection before I even start thinking about any of those other items since this one is obviously skewed towards a colder climate. I am also interested in seeing what he does from Mongolia next season if anything at all and if he will re-release any of the pants from "Legs" that were done from the Hooligans collection. If I remember correctly, Hanuman had a really great shape.

Of course, this will probably take years to complete, but that's fine hehe.

Anybody else targeting anything?
post #123 of 139
Originally Posted by Ivwri View Post


Of course, this will probably take years to complete, but that's fine hehe.

Anybody else targeting anything?

 

Picked up a few accessories. I'm also interested in the saxophone pants for this winter and will budget skanda jacket and mongolia riding coat for next year.

post #124 of 139
The site is cool (though from a user experience standpoint I actually don't think it's as well-structured as it could be). But it helps to have the design manifesto laid out explicitly and then be able to look at all the info on the individual items and see how that manifesto actually plays out in the garments. I also like the idea that he focuses on individual products rather than collections, and it's cool how that informs the way pieces are actually sold. He's designed a new business model as well, like Ivwri pointed out.

I do still have some issues with his approach generally. The site talks about the difference between artists and designers, saying artists pose problems and designers solve them (http://aitorthroup.com/chapters/new-object-research/). I don't find that characterization accurate to start with, but even in that framework, I think the "problems" he sometimes solves are just conceptual ones that he's made up. What I mean is that they're not really problems faced by the people who are going to be wearing the clothing. The Mongolian Riders Jacket is maybe the biggest offender. It's designed specifically to be as functional as possible for Mongolian horse riders, who spend a great deal of time riding and have to be comfortable and protected from the weather. It's one of my favorite pieces of his as far as appearance goes, but I find the concept pretty silly. The jacket costs more than $7,000 dollars. No Mongolian will be wearing it. I bet the people who are won't be riding horses in it. The site points out that a design isn't justified by function alone. If it works in a metaphorical sense in the narrative it's also justified. I think that makes sense, but given how much time and effort went into making it functional, and how that's a significant part of the final cost, I think that function itself needs to be justified. It's not in this case. It's just there for the sake of doing something different.

The Stockwell Jeans are another example. The narrative they fit into is the Effects of Ethnic Stereotyping, but they're not just a recreation of the jeans the Brazilian in the incident was wearing when he was shot. A lot of thought and design has gone into their function, so presumably that's important. But it's not really clear what function that is. They're just designed for a more anatomical fit, which is great in and of itself. But at nearly $3,000 I think the cost is way out of proportion to the value they add over a pair of Japanese selvedge jeans created with the typical design at 1/10 the price. As a metaphor they certainly aren't interesting enough to justify the price.

I still love the way a lot of the pieces look, and I think the effort and thought that went into the design is awesome. At a more reasonable price I would pick up the Stockwell Jeans and a bunch of other pieces in a heartbeat. And I love the metaphorical approach to clothing he has. Still, I can't help but find his whole conceptual framework a bit off. Given how much time was spent on it, it doesn't feel very sturdy.
post #125 of 139
Thread Starter 
Some great points p4, but I also think that you may be giving Aitor more credit than he is worth (or maybe even asking for) in some respects.

His quote about artists and designers is one of the things about his manufesto I wish he worded differently because to me, taken in context with other interviews he has given and how he works etc. he is obviously speaking only about himself (or at a stretch his team). His more "artistic" side comes up with an idea which he then puts down in sketches and he spends a lot of time refining and exploring and then as a "designer" he then spends yet even more time figuring out how to not only tie in the original idea with functionality, but also how to make it an actual physical object someone can wear and not be hampered by. Remember he started all this by drawing a lot. I guess he found a way other than comic books to monetise that particular skill set.

Aitor is very different from Massimo Osti or a designer like Errolson Hugh for instance (at least when he is working on New Object Research related items) who are thinking about actual users. I see Aitor more like a superhero costume designer that makes the clothing in a comic book available to buy. "Doing something different" is enough for his conceptual framework I think.

It is like the most luxurious cosplay ever. Lol.

As long as the piece works within the narrative context he originally developed, then it is justified. In a way, his entire business brings him right back to being an artist (in the sense of art not necessarily having utilitarian value) than a product designer. He has just found a way to express himself and he has developed a framework to sell/share that vision to/with people.

Sometimes, I think he might have been better off with solely private clients, making items on demand based on his archetypes instead of going RTW and doing exhibitions regularly as I feel he may now be in a precarious position where the hype may die down and he will not be left with enough customers to justify the retail model (unlike a designer like CCP who also makes crazy art pieces but can still make retail viable by making boots, pants, leather jackets etc that can be easily worn without looking too sci-fi). Who knows though? He may end up with a good core of clients picking up stuff regularly.

As an aside, while I only own the shiva bag at the moment, I think that part of his whole process is trying to find a middle ground between his conceptual narrative and everyday use of an object. I use the shiva bag almost every day for example and it's being shaped like a skull does not get in the way of my using it, not to mention the addition of multiple straps givin me options for carrying it around (even if those straps were added to allow me to cosplay Shiva literally if I had more of the bags).

The pieces will work for their intended purpose and the "resting state" for most of them look pretty okay. The saxophone suit for example does not have to be worn with the sax case on the back and if cold enough to warrant it, one can take the time to assemble the scarf and move around like that and be protected from the elements. Of course one could argue that he could have gotten the same effect without all the extra construction and design time taken to stick so obsessively to his design manifesto, but the same could be said for a lot of other designers (maybe not to as crazy an extent, but still) and he would not have his "hook". I know Yohji pants could be a lot cheaper if he did not use as much expensive fabric as he does and cut to a less particular pattern, but that is part of the charm, no? That effort has no function beyond the aesthetic.

I do think items like the Stockwell tshirt and jeans and so on are a bit redundant, but he strikes me as the sort of guy that is super particular and must follow his own manifesto to the letter so they "needed" to be created, but yeah...

I also think the website could have a better UI/UX, but overall it took only a few minutes to adjust to and the content is S rank biggrin.gif.
post #126 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivwri View Post

In a way, his entire business brings him right back to being an artist (in the sense of art not necessarily having utilitarian value) than a product designer. He has just found a way to express himself and he has developed a framework to sell/share that vision to/with people.

First off, great response. You make a lot of really good points. For me it kinda comes down to what you said here. Ironically if I had never seen his design manifesto I probably wouldn't have any issues with his concept. I would happily just call it clothing design and accept that it falls into that hard-to-define space between art and product. I guess I'd still think it a little silly that he had a $7,000+ coat designed for horse riding, but then I could just accept it as being more on the art end of clothing design.

The thing that I like the most about his approach is that he tries to design things from scratch. He's not just tweaking a pattern he got from elsewhere. There is a little bit of reinventing the wheel about it, but if he really can make a better product then great. I love that he's willing to put that sort of work in. And his stuff just looks really cool. smile.gif Hoping to check some out at Atelier soon because I'm sure in person it's a totally different experience.
post #127 of 139

Could anyone here shed some light on the edge-to-edge construction of some of his pieces? Explicit close-up pics would be appreciated.

post #128 of 139
This is a really fascinating discussion, and Throup is a very unique designer. I'd kill for a complete ensemble of his, but it looks like I'll just have to hope and hope that he's still designing kickass futurist techwear 20 years from now when I have a real career
post #129 of 139
Originally Posted by sipang View Post


Anyone ? Anyone ?

 

I have, it's well worth a read even after the new website info dump. Also it delves a bit into the discussion on inspiration for his work (the issue that pickpackpockpuck). My stance is that, while I wish the his prices were more accessible, I don't have any problem with him using Katrina as inspiration just like I don't have any problem with Van Gogh's Guernica.

 

Originally Posted by chinesealpha View Post
 

Could anyone here shed some light on the edge-to-edge construction of some of his pieces? Explicit close-up pics would be appreciated.

 

There's a small black and white pic of the edge-to-edge construction in the SZmag.

 

 

And from the Sales Thread:

 

Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post
 

That's all she wrote.

 

:wow:

post #130 of 139
Quote:
BoF Exclusive | Aitor Throup Joins G-Star Raw as Creative Consultant

By Robin Mellery-Pratt 30 April, 2014

Today, BoF can exclusively reveal that artist and designer Aitor Throup has joined Dutch denim label G-Star Raw as a creative consultant focused on product design, store design, and marketing and communications.


LONDON, United Kingdom — BoF can exclusively reveal that Aitor Throup has been appointed as a creative consultant at Dutch denim label G-Star Raw. The artist and designer —know for his fascination with anatomy, his focus on functionality and a construction process which utilises his own sculptures of the human body as a system for blocking garments — will work with the company on a range of special projects encompassing product design, store design, and marketing and communications, “with the ultimate aim of globally aligning G-Star’s continuing ethos of denim innovation,” said an official statement. Throup was also the creative direction of Damon Albarn’s first solo album Everyday Robots. He studied at the Royal College of Art, where his acclaimed graduate collection was entitled “When Football Hooligans Become Hindu Gods.”

“We have long admired Throup’s work as a designer. The collaboration between G-Star and Aitor Throup is a natural fit as we share a design ethos that is rooted in innovation and identified by 3D construction. Many of his object creations hit a chord with G-Star’s DNA, roots and design philosophy,” said Thecla Schaeffer, chief marketing officer of G-Star Raw, which specialises in unwashed and untreated denim.

“G-Star [first] approached me about three years ago. They presented their history and a lot of things that I was unaware of, which took me by surprise. I started seeing all of these examples of really beautiful product design; distilled yet modernised versions of Jean Prouvé furniture, Canondale bikes, a Land Rover Defender, a Leica camera. G-Star have this approach that is so consistent and so product focused,” said Throup.

The designer intends to bolster G-Star’s communications by “focusing on the unique ability and product of the brand, and helping them define unique ways to put that across, which goes above and beyond pure product design. It is about how denim innovation and this product integrity, which in recent times hasn’t always been that apparent, should be brought to the surface through [store] environments, marketing and advertising campaigns.” In one of his first projects for the brand, Throup has art directed G-Star Raw’s Spring/Summer 2014 brand campaign starring Magnus Carlsen and Lily Cole.


G-Star Raw’s S/S 14 campaign by Aitor Throup, starring Lily Cole and chess Grand Master Magnus Carlsen

Throup’s cerebral approach is also already evident at the brand’s new concept store in London’s Oxford Street, a minimalist, gallery-like space launched in December 2013 and realised in collaboration with Hungarian concrete design studio and factory Ivanka. “We worked with really high-level architects and G-Star were open enough to take on board completely new thinking and new interpretations of what retail could be. We elevated the stock room into this almost suspended, beautiful glass mezzanine feature. It is a direct metaphor for the transparency of the brand. We don’t mind showing you the stock room, we have nothing to hide. That in itself reflects the ethos of the brand, this raw approach to everything.”

“This is what I love doing, creating the vernacular for whatever message I am conveying. I have always considered the space and the way things are presented,” continued Throup. “The spectrum for my creativity hasn’t changed; it is just the reach and the level of the implementation. I can’t imagine presenting a collection or a project without it being a multi-dimensional sensory experience, and creating a world for the work to inhabit. This is effectively that, times a thousand.”

Aitor Throup will discuss his unique take on fashion with Tim Blanks, fashion critic and editor-at-large of Style.com, at the London Design Museum on Wednesday 30 April 2014 at 7.30pm.
post #131 of 139
from RFT

Quote:
Originally Posted by sipang View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowmanxl View Post



Did I miss any talk about aitor throup going to gstar raw?
Or is it not worth mentioning tongue.gif


Smart move to get ppl that don't give a fuck about gstar (me, you, everyone...) maybe a bit interested in the brand and an opportunity for AT to 1) test/develop his product design approach within the constraints/limitations of the brief, which he's all about (design is problem solving etc) and push further what he's done with Umbro and previous collabs - 2) create a whole new visual universe/language for the brand from the ground up. Seems like a win win.

I'm skeptical about his ability to change the brand's trajectory radically enough to make it interesting though, I guess that's what makes it an exciting challenge, so I'm not too excited about the end result but def. intrigued.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowmanxl View Post

Yeah, itll be interesting to see what he does with denim as the main material. A lot of darting I suspect smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicelynice View Post

G-Star already has some kind of Arc / 3D pants (source: I walk by G-Star store every day) with darting and tapering. The cut actually looks pretty good. The details are hideous, but the pairing actually kind of makes sense in that regard

edit:

I'd buy these in a plain wash with all branding removed

https://www.g-star.com/en_gb/product/men/jeans/20.0.50783.4639.071

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post


I had a g-star phase in the early 00s.

shog%5B1%5D.gif

If you had a newsboy cap, a tight tank top, and a pair of Adidas runners, you would have fit right in as a gay LA clubber. Everytime someone found out I was "in fashion", particularly in denim, and at every industry party where there were boyfriends of whoever, this was the buff gay dude uniform, and I would inevitably be asked by at least 3 guys: "what do you think of G-Star. The jeans are so great. They just fit my ass right." (shows off GStar clad ass).
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowmanxl View Post

Yeah, itll be interesting to see what he does with denim as the main material. A lot of darting I suspect smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicelynice View Post

G-Star already has some kind of Arc / 3D pants (source: I walk by G-Star store every day) with darting and tapering. The cut actually looks pretty good. The details are hideous, but the pairing actually kind of makes sense in that regard


edit:


I'd buy these in a plain wash with all branding removed

https://www.g-star.com/en_gb/product/men/jeans/20.0.50783.4639.071
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceoceo View Post

Can't say for mens (Although I had 7 yr old raw denim from them) but from what I hear from a friend of mine their womens line is really nice for the price quality and fit wise.

Yup. They have been doing this since, I want to say 2007 or so. The materials are not that great, but it's decent from the price. The design is definitely there. The problem is that that mix between the not great materials and the often terrible branding combines into "OMG Eutrotrashiness." If they used more interesting materials and toned down the branding to reflect 2014 instead of a Eastern European disco circo 1999, I'd be tempted.
post #132 of 139
Thread Starter 
It should be interesting to see what he comes up with.

The Umbro and Topman collaborations come to mind again and those seemed to have been in line with his whole design approach. The one thing that is really interesting to me about all this is that primarily, the Aitor Throup brand is a creative consultancy business. The "mainline" as it were, being nothing more than a showcase of his whole approach. The branding, construction and design cohesiveness. This whole designing a process thing he has been working on is something that can be applied to any sort of brand it seems. Just like you said sipang, it is a good test for his method. I am actually curious to see how much creative control they give him. It could turn out to be something like the Kasabian creative consultancy where for all intents and purposes he seems to be completely in charge of their output when it comes to graphic design, music videos, costuming/styling etc.

Well, hopefully it goes well. Will be interesting to see more of Aitor's "products" come out whatever platform they are presented on.
post #133 of 139
Quote:
Aitor Throup on becoming creative consultant to G-Star Raw

The artist and designer talks conceptual fashion and his latest work for the Dutch denim firm


Dazed Digital
20/05/2014
Text Malgorzata Stankiewicz


Left Image: G-Star Raw Archive, ‘Waxed Coat'. Right Image: C.P Company's '20th Anniversary Edition Goggle Jacket' by Aitor Throup


Aitor Throup is a man of many projects. When he’s not busying himself with reinventing and reappropriating the conventional approach to fashion design and garment construction, he creates videos and artworks for the likes of Damon Albarn or Kasabian. He also art-directs and consults, all of which he navigates so seamlessly you could be forgiven for thinking it was a single project altogether. Now, to add to this ever-growing portfolio, the Argentinian-born London-based artist and designer has been appointed as a creative consultant to the Dutch denim label G-Star Raw. We caught him en-route to Kent – where he was headed to oversee yet another of his projects – to chat about his appointment at the brand and the future of conceptual fashion.

To date you’ve been involved in two very different projects for G-Star: the design of their flagship store in London and more recently, the art-direction for their spring/summer campaign. What does your new position as a creative consultant entail and what is the next project you’re working?

Aitor Throup: I think there are a lot of instances where my input is based on trying to align the brand and bring the ethos of the brand to the surface that aren’t necessarily limited to a specific project. It's a general alignment and innovation of what the brand has always stood for: denim innovation. I guess what I’m trying to do is give them my take on how to tell stories. I have always treated my work as storytelling and I think they’ve got a really interesting and compelling story to tell. And it can be told through retail space and a campaign but obviously the story can be told through product in itself.

Why do you think it was you who G-Star selected for this role? Why does your vision work for the brand in your opinion?

Aitor Throup: Historically, I think G-Star became big primarily due to their innovation within the denim world – they have a very three-dimensional, anatomical element in their DNA. They started by designing these cool, anatomical 3D denim objects and then, through their long-running collaborations with amazing high-profile product design brands from Land Rover to Leica to Jean Prouvé and Vitra to Cannondell and through their own at times avant-garde experimentations with raw denim, they gained a product design sensibility as a brand.

Both of the projects that you have so far realised for G-Star were very conceptual, like your own work,. What is the future of such conceptual fashion and design as a whole? Does such conceptuality affect functionality in any way?

Aitor Throup: At times when I looked through the history of the brand, I realised they have been a very conceptual brand but with a possibility to reach a lot of people and I think that if you can align those to extremes, it is a very exciting proposition. I think concept shows that there was a true intent and a reason behind doing something. If something is conceptual doesn’t necessarily mean that it has to be avant-garde or sculptural or unwearable. I think that successful, and even mass-market brands will become increasingly conceptual and increasingly concerned with telling a story behind their creations in the future. I think that on the one hand, consumers are becoming more savvy but also more desensitised. There’s just a lot of stuff out there and when we see so much of everything, that’s exactly how we react. I really do think that G-Star is one of those brands that actually has a compelling story to tell that is not just about stuff. What they did with jeans, particularly in terms of the form and the fit, they’ve really challenged the conventions of the denim genre. They’ve gone way above and beyond ‘the skinny fit’, ‘the regular fit’ and ‘the baggy fit’. They’ve completely reimagined what those fits could be.

Speaking of denim, what’s your approach to the material given you’ve mainly worked with wool up until now?

Aitor Throup: Whenever the fabric itself can be charged with so much history and culturally relevant points of reference, for me as a conceptual designer, it helps me to use the fabric as another point of reference in the story. It is a useful tool. I haven’t worked with denim as much as I have worked with wool, with which I have done a lot of innovation. But I’ve always been interested in denim. I did one of the outfits in ‘New Object Research’ collection is all based on denim, developed in Japanese denim to which we gave a very unique, sculptural treatment. Then I saw a G-Star’s designs that were quite similar to what we were doing, as if they were trying to tap into the same thing but in a way that can reach more people. The more I learn about the denim through them, the more I am applying my own way of thinking to the denim world and I’m trying to come up with completely new ways of dealing with that material which I think is a very beautiful and fascinating fabric.

How about your own designs? What are you working on at the moment?

Aitor Throup: New Object Research continues on. We’re trying to take it to the next level now that we’ve achieved the standardisation of all the elements; from the archetypes to the blocks. We’ve constructed the pieces using our unique seams and our fastening system, we’ve invented a lot of things and put them together into this package that became a brand that is all about innovation in an artistic sense but also in a product design sense. This all was about standardisation and production in a most direct and internal way possible. Now we’re trying to industrialise all of those processes and expand the vision and the reach of it. At the same time I am also experimenting with new methods of evolving my presentation techniques, and expanding the format of sculptures in a gallery setting vs models in a catwalk setting. That’s one of the most exciting things that we’re working on at the moment. And doing more and more film which I want to bring back to New Object Research. And most importantly, I am working on the development of the concept number five which is in the early stage of development and which I very much want to preview at some point next year.




Left Image: G-Star Raw Archive: 'Jockeys'. Right Image: Aitor Throup, ‘Mongolia', rider and horse sculpture



Left Image: G-Star Raw Archive: ‘Trumpet'. Right Image: Aitor Throup, 'The Funeral of New Orleans', Saxophone Case

Edited by sipang - 5/27/14 at 3:44pm
post #134 of 139

Does anyone know what the process of making those sculptures? for both the mesh ones and/or the tape armatures he uses in his studio. I'm a design student and would love to know.
thanks :)

post #135 of 139
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiet Tran View Post

Does anyone know what the process of making those sculptures? for both the mesh ones and/or the tape armatures he uses in his studio. I'm a design student and would love to know.

thanks smile.gif


Not sure anyone that does know is allowed to say to be honest smile.gif. You can watch the Dazed Digital video they put up of him setting up the DSM installation during Frieze if that helps a bit?
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