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New Object Research - The Aitor Throup Thread - Page 9

post #121 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivwri View Post

This is one of the things that makes me really excited about his business model. The idea that a piece of clothing can be saved up for and purchased like picking up an Eames chair or some other expensive design object. That anxiety associated with looking at something you want and hoping it hits sales and gets into your price bracket is no longer there.

Yeah, it's a major thing for me. I want to plan my purchases. If it's going to be expensive, so be it. I'd rather have the security of knowing I'm not making a rash purchase.
post #122 of 129
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionheart Biker View Post

Are you planning on getting anything from the current stock, Iwvri?  Or might you be waiting for some other items to come out?

If it is still available when I have the cash, I really want the veil jacket. Other than that, my wish list looks something like:

One of the funeral suits (Ideally the trumpet suit for maximum volume in the pants biggrin.gif), a pair of the Mongolia trousers and tshirt in lighter fabrics, veil pocket with strap (if the ones on the jacket are not detachable) and another shiva bag.

Will most likely wait until his spring collection before I even start thinking about any of those other items since this one is obviously skewed towards a colder climate. I am also interested in seeing what he does from Mongolia next season if anything at all and if he will re-release any of the pants from "Legs" that were done from the Hooligans collection. If I remember correctly, Hanuman had a really great shape.

Of course, this will probably take years to complete, but that's fine hehe.

Anybody else targeting anything?
post #123 of 129
Originally Posted by Ivwri View Post


Of course, this will probably take years to complete, but that's fine hehe.

Anybody else targeting anything?

 

Picked up a few accessories. I'm also interested in the saxophone pants for this winter and will budget skanda jacket and mongolia riding coat for next year.

post #124 of 129
The site is cool (though from a user experience standpoint I actually don't think it's as well-structured as it could be). But it helps to have the design manifesto laid out explicitly and then be able to look at all the info on the individual items and see how that manifesto actually plays out in the garments. I also like the idea that he focuses on individual products rather than collections, and it's cool how that informs the way pieces are actually sold. He's designed a new business model as well, like Ivwri pointed out.

I do still have some issues with his approach generally. The site talks about the difference between artists and designers, saying artists pose problems and designers solve them (http://aitorthroup.com/chapters/new-object-research/). I don't find that characterization accurate to start with, but even in that framework, I think the "problems" he sometimes solves are just conceptual ones that he's made up. What I mean is that they're not really problems faced by the people who are going to be wearing the clothing. The Mongolian Riders Jacket is maybe the biggest offender. It's designed specifically to be as functional as possible for Mongolian horse riders, who spend a great deal of time riding and have to be comfortable and protected from the weather. It's one of my favorite pieces of his as far as appearance goes, but I find the concept pretty silly. The jacket costs more than $7,000 dollars. No Mongolian will be wearing it. I bet the people who are won't be riding horses in it. The site points out that a design isn't justified by function alone. If it works in a metaphorical sense in the narrative it's also justified. I think that makes sense, but given how much time and effort went into making it functional, and how that's a significant part of the final cost, I think that function itself needs to be justified. It's not in this case. It's just there for the sake of doing something different.

The Stockwell Jeans are another example. The narrative they fit into is the Effects of Ethnic Stereotyping, but they're not just a recreation of the jeans the Brazilian in the incident was wearing when he was shot. A lot of thought and design has gone into their function, so presumably that's important. But it's not really clear what function that is. They're just designed for a more anatomical fit, which is great in and of itself. But at nearly $3,000 I think the cost is way out of proportion to the value they add over a pair of Japanese selvedge jeans created with the typical design at 1/10 the price. As a metaphor they certainly aren't interesting enough to justify the price.

I still love the way a lot of the pieces look, and I think the effort and thought that went into the design is awesome. At a more reasonable price I would pick up the Stockwell Jeans and a bunch of other pieces in a heartbeat. And I love the metaphorical approach to clothing he has. Still, I can't help but find his whole conceptual framework a bit off. Given how much time was spent on it, it doesn't feel very sturdy.
post #125 of 129
Thread Starter 
Some great points p4, but I also think that you may be giving Aitor more credit than he is worth (or maybe even asking for) in some respects.

His quote about artists and designers is one of the things about his manufesto I wish he worded differently because to me, taken in context with other interviews he has given and how he works etc. he is obviously speaking only about himself (or at a stretch his team). His more "artistic" side comes up with an idea which he then puts down in sketches and he spends a lot of time refining and exploring and then as a "designer" he then spends yet even more time figuring out how to not only tie in the original idea with functionality, but also how to make it an actual physical object someone can wear and not be hampered by. Remember he started all this by drawing a lot. I guess he found a way other than comic books to monetise that particular skill set.

Aitor is very different from Massimo Osti or a designer like Errolson Hugh for instance (at least when he is working on New Object Research related items) who are thinking about actual users. I see Aitor more like a superhero costume designer that makes the clothing in a comic book available to buy. "Doing something different" is enough for his conceptual framework I think.

It is like the most luxurious cosplay ever. Lol.

As long as the piece works within the narrative context he originally developed, then it is justified. In a way, his entire business brings him right back to being an artist (in the sense of art not necessarily having utilitarian value) than a product designer. He has just found a way to express himself and he has developed a framework to sell/share that vision to/with people.

Sometimes, I think he might have been better off with solely private clients, making items on demand based on his archetypes instead of going RTW and doing exhibitions regularly as I feel he may now be in a precarious position where the hype may die down and he will not be left with enough customers to justify the retail model (unlike a designer like CCP who also makes crazy art pieces but can still make retail viable by making boots, pants, leather jackets etc that can be easily worn without looking too sci-fi). Who knows though? He may end up with a good core of clients picking up stuff regularly.

As an aside, while I only own the shiva bag at the moment, I think that part of his whole process is trying to find a middle ground between his conceptual narrative and everyday use of an object. I use the shiva bag almost every day for example and it's being shaped like a skull does not get in the way of my using it, not to mention the addition of multiple straps givin me options for carrying it around (even if those straps were added to allow me to cosplay Shiva literally if I had more of the bags).

The pieces will work for their intended purpose and the "resting state" for most of them look pretty okay. The saxophone suit for example does not have to be worn with the sax case on the back and if cold enough to warrant it, one can take the time to assemble the scarf and move around like that and be protected from the elements. Of course one could argue that he could have gotten the same effect without all the extra construction and design time taken to stick so obsessively to his design manifesto, but the same could be said for a lot of other designers (maybe not to as crazy an extent, but still) and he would not have his "hook". I know Yohji pants could be a lot cheaper if he did not use as much expensive fabric as he does and cut to a less particular pattern, but that is part of the charm, no? That effort has no function beyond the aesthetic.

I do think items like the Stockwell tshirt and jeans and so on are a bit redundant, but he strikes me as the sort of guy that is super particular and must follow his own manifesto to the letter so they "needed" to be created, but yeah...

I also think the website could have a better UI/UX, but overall it took only a few minutes to adjust to and the content is S rank biggrin.gif.
post #126 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivwri View Post

In a way, his entire business brings him right back to being an artist (in the sense of art not necessarily having utilitarian value) than a product designer. He has just found a way to express himself and he has developed a framework to sell/share that vision to/with people.

First off, great response. You make a lot of really good points. For me it kinda comes down to what you said here. Ironically if I had never seen his design manifesto I probably wouldn't have any issues with his concept. I would happily just call it clothing design and accept that it falls into that hard-to-define space between art and product. I guess I'd still think it a little silly that he had a $7,000+ coat designed for horse riding, but then I could just accept it as being more on the art end of clothing design.

The thing that I like the most about his approach is that he tries to design things from scratch. He's not just tweaking a pattern he got from elsewhere. There is a little bit of reinventing the wheel about it, but if he really can make a better product then great. I love that he's willing to put that sort of work in. And his stuff just looks really cool. smile.gif Hoping to check some out at Atelier soon because I'm sure in person it's a totally different experience.
post #127 of 129

Could anyone here shed some light on the edge-to-edge construction of some of his pieces? Explicit close-up pics would be appreciated.

post #128 of 129
This is a really fascinating discussion, and Throup is a very unique designer. I'd kill for a complete ensemble of his, but it looks like I'll just have to hope and hope that he's still designing kickass futurist techwear 20 years from now when I have a real career
post #129 of 129
Originally Posted by sipang View Post


Anyone ? Anyone ?

 

I have, it's well worth a read even after the new website info dump. Also it delves a bit into the discussion on inspiration for his work (the issue that pickpackpockpuck). My stance is that, while I wish the his prices were more accessible, I don't have any problem with him using Katrina as inspiration just like I don't have any problem with Van Gogh's Guernica.

 

Originally Posted by chinesealpha View Post
 

Could anyone here shed some light on the edge-to-edge construction of some of his pieces? Explicit close-up pics would be appreciated.

 

There's a small black and white pic of the edge-to-edge construction in the SZmag.

 

 

And from the Sales Thread:

 

Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post
 

That's all she wrote.

 

:wow:

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