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Best bespoke commission ever? I think so. *** PICTURES ADDED FOR THOSE LACKING IMAGINATION - Page 26

post #376 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovelace View Post

You should just leave it as it is.

This - it looks good.

But if you get your Delorean up to 88mph, you should do the third one.
post #377 of 436
Thread Starter 
I thought I'd like the third one, but I don't. If it were a completely different coat--say with peak lapels--I can see it would be much better. But the two buttoning rows in the current configuration are elongating, in addition to adding the military air you don't like so much.
post #378 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

I'm not concerned with what Taub intends to do. It's a question of whether the result is good or bad, and by what measure. As a piece of avant garde fashion, I have trouble understanding the value of what we've seen: a fundamental reliance on classic forms combined with "new" surface embellishment that is difficult to read. You get a confused mish-mash where it's not clear why the inventor stuck to a classic form to begin with. If you want to push boundaries, would it not be more courageous to create something more new from the ground up? To do so with clear purpose? In actuality, Despos's shirt-coat is much more in that spirit. Even a stalwart classic menswear lover can appreciate the added functionality--because that functionality makes sense within classic menswear, though the form did not exist before. We know to view it as more casual because it is less structured than a typical overcoat. The shirt collar relates it to shirt jackets, which we also view as a sort of casual, sporty hybrid. The lack of detailing makes it highly adaptable to different outfits. It can be made more dressy over a coat, yet makes sense over a sweater, too. Such a garment may not have existed before, but it is nonetheless soundly "classic menswear." It draws from the same language even if it speaks a new idea. Language, language, language. That's what I'm getting at. I'm not saying we all have to dress identically to be classic.

This all touches on the idea of coherency that Vox wrote about, though perhaps from a different angle.

 


On another note, I am home sick today so couldn't go outside to take photos. Here is the overcoat, properly buttoned and from a more level perspective. The height of the gorge is much more accurately depicted:

fooovercoat_indoors.jpg

 

Were you butt squeezing pitching your pelvis forward?  Somehow the back vent doesn't scream open this time but instead the front looks funny...  The coat needs more allowance for your expanding lower body.

post #379 of 436
To me, the buttons are essential to the the lapel/collar combination. If one were dead-set on having fewer buttons, he would also want a different lapel & collar, and therefore, a different coat.
Edited by The Thin Man - 2/1/13 at 2:22pm
post #380 of 436
Foo - I think for this coat the first photo (the real one) looks best. It adds uniqueness to it with a dash of Duke of Windsor. The DOW quality being nipped waist being set between buttons and not at them. Granted he only had two buttons. Actually something I'm considering for a future commission. You only live once, right?
post #381 of 436
Beautiful coat, Foo. A quality thread.
post #382 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post

glad to know someone else noticed this too

Any change to the OCBD is an evil bastardization.

Here's the founder of Pompei restaurant wearing an OCBD in 19-whatever, killing it.





The Italians were the first to embrace the original OCBD, warts and all, because they understood the beautiful, unstudied look of this marvelous creature.

Any change to the OCBD makes it look studied and immediately defeats the entire purpose, IMHO. Foo's tweaks to whatever we want to call the overcoat landed him a winner. On the other hand, the tweaks to the OCBD, as innocuous as the intent, kill it for me.

Italy exports lots of variations of the OCBD but the Big Tymers there like Gianna Agnelli never strayed from the classic, pairing it with Caraceni suits and killing it every time.

t.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Foggi24.it%2Fc%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F01%2Fimgres-210.jpeg&q=90&w=300&h=&zc=1

Three cheers for a classic that defines effortless elegance...

post #383 of 436
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaymanS View Post

Any change to the OCBD is an evil bastardization.

Except, OCBDs always had some variation, and nobody makes them like they used to. If you want something from Brooks Brothers that is closer to what you see in some of the pictures you posted, you must make modifications.

The collar roll, for example, is not the same on today's OCBDs. Heightening the collar on mine was partially meant to combat that, as it seems the collars on BB's double-button collars keep a better roll. Also, if you can get them to do it, you'll need to get the collar made without an interlining, as they default to one.

Chest pockets were never a universal feature. They came and went on Brooks Brothers OCBDs, for example.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaymanS View Post

Three cheers for a classic that defines effortless elegance...


You like that? It looks skimpy to me--nothing like what epitomizes a classically good BD collar.
post #384 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

You like that?

I do. To me, it's just awesome. But I obviously take some of your other points.

For instance, the Herman Miller molded plastic Eames chair is horrible. It's supposed to be the original, but it looks cheap and crappy, because Herman Miller has been making this chair out of cheap, crappy plastic since 2003:



Perversely, if you really want a "real" Eames chair, you actually have to go to Modernica, which sells a molded chair using the *actual* fiberglass presses Herman Miller used to use before they went cheapo, even though the Modernica chair is technically a knock-off...



As such, the original manufacturer doesn't have a monopoly on authenticity, and can even ruin a product, and I get that.

But the French placket, double button collar, and two button cutaway cuff still kill it for me. As for the pocket, it's sort of frumpy, misplaced, and ill-proportioned. All of which I love, of course.
post #385 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

You like that? It looks skimpy to me--nothing like what epitomizes a classically good BD collar.

+1. Looks maybe too tight or too low...and not very soft.
post #386 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantabrigian View Post

If you had three rows, I'd probably move the upper three down by half the distance between each row.

Some variations to illustrate:

fooovercoat_variations.jpg

The first is the actual coat. The second is with the bottom row of buttons eliminated. The third shows three rows of buttons shifted downward as you suggest.

One looks best, looks intentional. All buttons 1 cm lower? Maybe. It would be more on the point of waist suppression but it could be that way as is from a different camera angle.

Two looks pedestrian

Three looks droopy but would feel roomier in the chest from the change in button position. Droopy does not mean relaxed here.
post #387 of 436
Yea cayman - I was expecting more after your (very well put) paean to the OCBD.

I agree w/ foo.gif, the pocket isn't essential.

And I think it's much better without the box pleat and locker loop.

Otherwise, don't mess with perfect imperfection
post #388 of 436
Thread Starter 
Well, there are specific examples of classic OCBDs, then there is the spirit of the classic OCBD. Clearly what I did diverged from the former, but not so much the latter. I think I achieved a better, beefier roll on mine than I've seen on other contemporary examples--certainly better than anything Brooks Brothers does by default. The other detail changes either make the shirt fit me better or make the shirt a little more versatile.
post #389 of 436
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post

One looks best, looks intentional. All buttons 1 cm lower? Maybe. It would be more on the point of waist suppression but it could be that way as is from a different camera angle.

Could be camera angle, or it could be the way I Photoshopped out the background. It's more an art than a science, you know.
post #390 of 436
Foo, beautiful coat. Enjoy.
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