Best bespoke commission ever? I think so. *** PICTURES ADDED FOR THOSE LACKING IMAGINATION - Page 23

I'm not concerned with what Taub intends to do. It's a question of whether the result is good or bad, and by what measure. As a piece of avant garde fashion, I have trouble understanding the value of what we've seen: a fundamental reliance on classic forms combined with "new" surface embellishment that is difficult to read. You get a confused mish-mash where it's not clear why the inventor stuck to a classic form to begin with. If you want to push boundaries, would it not be more courageous to create something more new from the ground up? To do so with clear purpose? In actuality, Despos's shirt-coat is much more in that spirit. Even a stalwart classic menswear lover can appreciate the added functionality--because that functionality makes sense within classic menswear, though the form did not exist before. We know to view it as more casual because it is less structured than a typical overcoat. The shirt collar relates it to shirt jackets, which we also view as a sort of casual, sporty hybrid. The lack of detailing makes it highly adaptable to different outfits. It can be made more dressy over a coat, yet makes sense over a sweater, too. Such a garment may not have existed before, but it is nonetheless soundly "classic menswear." It draws from the same language even if it speaks a new idea. Language, language, language. That's what I'm getting at. I'm not saying we all have to dress identically to be classic.

This all touches on the idea of coherency that Vox wrote about, though perhaps from a different angle.

On another note, I am home sick today so couldn't go outside to take photos. Here is the overcoat, properly buttoned and from a more level perspective. The height of the gorge is much more accurately depicted:

I think that has more to with the cloth settling, but I'm not sure.

Err, yes and no. It safely fastens up to the top row of visible buttons (the row above where it is buttoned in the photo). There is also a button behind the lapel so that, theoretically, the lapel can be folded over completely and fastened. However, that doesn't work without a lot of fidgeting and it is incredibly uncomfortable. Don't think it's meant to actually work that way.

Anyone think the buttoning point is too high?

No, it just means you need to be clear about how you are judging it. It is an absolutely terrible apple pie or tire rack. And that can be said objectively.

You know what, I provided a very detailed analysis. You can disagree or agree with various points and explain why. I am not privileging myself; my explanation isn't "because I said so!" I appealed to what I think are common understandings within classic menswear to distinguish between the sorts of changes Despos made to his shirt-coat versus how Taub has embellished his design. If anyone wants to have a substantive discussion about what I'm saying, I think I've laid sufficient groundwork for that.

To be specific, I have made it very clear that I do not mean function in a purely physical sense. Clothes are also communicative. Despos's shirt-coat is a new sort of garment whose changes from pre-existing forms are functional from both a physical and communicative perspective.

I know what the collar is called. I was just describing how high the coat buttons up because I was asked.

I think longwings can be great with jeans, and I have no problem with appropriating classic pieces in casual outfits. After all, the whole point of being casual is that there are few if any rules. It is what you want it to be. However, the reverse doesn't work nearly as well. An otherwise CBD-style outfit would fail with basketball sneakers. As a tux would. That makes sense. Though casual is about no having no hard rules, business formal, black tie, etc. are chock full of them.

I've described in great length what I mean, in several posts.