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Best bespoke commission ever? I think so. *** PICTURES ADDED FOR THOSE LACKING IMAGINATION - Page 22

post #316 of 436
I like the curved yoke and called it out in another thread. It is definitely more subtle.

I guess because I don't particularly like the asymmetrical-for-the-sake-of-being-asymmetrical back yoke, it's the one I've been keeping foremost in my head when reading this thread.
post #317 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaymanS View Post

What is the difference between a "representation" and a "warranty" in a merger agreement?

I don't know of any deeper legal significance, but in ordinary English a "representation" is a description of something and a "warranty" is a promise or guarantee to do something prospectively. If you're selling something you may give a detailed or vague representation of that thing, and/or make an broad or narrow commitment to rectify problems that may arise after the sale. A bad representation is false or inaccurate, a bad warranty is unavailable or unfulfilled.
post #318 of 436
Matt, given the length of your neck, I think a one-button OCBD is actually preferable. Wasn't this one a one-button?



Also, LH cuts a long sleeve ... how often does your entire shirt cuff poke out?

Finally, it would have been great to get a full-fledged review of a Mercer & Son's semi-custom OCBD from vox before he hit the eject button. Judging by the beautifully soft roll of the collars below, there appeared to be promise...

post #319 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by johanm View Post

I don't know of any deeper legal significance, but in ordinary English a "representation" is a description of something and a "warranty" is a promise or guarantee to do something prospectively. If you're selling something you may give a detailed or vague representation of that thing, and/or make an broad or narrow commitment to rectify problems that may arise after the sale. A bad representation is false or inaccurate, a bad warranty is unavailable or unfulfilled.

The 'promise' portion of a merger agreement is the indemnity section, which stipulates that the seller will indemnify the buyer for losses arising out of a breach of a representation (subject to certain limitations).
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

I just assumed lawyers like using extra words.

Only the shitty ones.

Prevalence of Latin and Odle Englishe in a lawyer's written work seems to be inversely proportional to such lawyer's billing rate.

The expensive/experienced ones are incredibly elegant and eliminate any useless verbiage, fearing that a jury or other unsophisticated interpreter of the document could eventually misconstrue it.

It's the lackluster/inexperienced ones that love to sprinkle in whitnesseth, whereas, heretofore, "mutatis mutandis" and other words which do nothing but confuse, over-layer, and generally "cluster fuck" a document.

Regardless of political bent, Justice Scalia is a magician when it comes to eliminating useless words. The vast majority of lawyers could gain a lot but studying his style.
post #320 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaymanS View Post

The 'promise' portion of a merger agreement is the indemnity section, which stipulates that the seller will indemnify the buyer for losses arising out of a breach of a representation (subject to certain limitations).

I'd say there's a lot more overlap between indemnity/warranty than representation/warranty. If you really wanted to make a distinction, warranty is probably more "limited" in the sense that the future promise corresponds to the state of the item at sale (e.g. manufacturing defects) whereas an indemnity can serve as insurance or security against any type of future loss. This conversation is slightly off-topic.
post #321 of 436
The mention of capes reminded me that, in Japan, one sometimes sees men wearing an Inverness, particularly--but not exclusively--with kimono. Here's a website offering one for sale. I've seen others in tailors' shop windows in tweed. A google search of インバネスコートturns up many examples. Here's one for sale at Hankyu Mens, in Umeda:


Edited by Kei-bon - 1/26/13 at 6:30pm
post #322 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by johanm View Post

I'd say there's a lot more overlap between indemnity/warranty than representation/warranty.

nod[1].gif
post #323 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlaneurNYC View Post

The biggest difference I can think of is that most casual observers would not necessarily pick up on foo's changes, where many more people would probably easily spot that an asymmetrical back yoke on an otherwise classic overcoat is something unusual. The asymmetrical yoke is much more overt, even if it is less radical.

I was thinking more about Taub's coat with the regular yoke, as opposed to the asymmetrical version. I'm guessing most people wouldn't pick up on that detail.

Also, if people (outside of this forum) aren't picking up on foo's changes, are they picking up on the connotation of sportiness and casualness of a buttondown shirt of which he spoke at all? Probably not. A yolk, symmetrical or not, is just a detail that the coat's owner thinks looks good. I'm not sure there's any intent of the owner to convey anything to the public.
post #324 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by zbromer View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

The button-down collar has a defined place in our clothing culture. It has certain connotations, chiefly that it is more sporting and casual than other collars one would wear with a tie. Hence, if I want to make my suit a little more casual, I might select a buttondown collar.

What about your Modified Brooks Brothers OCBD? You "redesigned" a classic menswear piece. Double-button collar, French placket, two-button mitered cuffs, no chest pocket, and no back pleats. Is your, largely, cosmetic redesign of a classic item really that different from Taub's cosmetic redesign? I find your modification of a classic item more radical than his. And that's not a knock. I liked some of the modifications enough that I actually ripped-off some of your tweaks to make my own Modified Modified Brooks Brothers OCBD. I realize that my version is not classic, and I don't really care. I just like the way it looks.

Here's part of the original post for those interested:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

So, I decided to give Brooks Brothers' made-to-measure program another try--but this time, I implemented some modifications to the classic format.



To make the collar higher and improve the collar roll, I had them implement a two-button collar. The old, single-button collar tended to flatten on my neck; this one stays up and looks better with a jacket. In the interest of making the shirt dressier, I also replaced the standard placket with a French placket (or 'no placket', if you prefer).



I've never liked the way a rounded barrel cuff looks poking out of a jacket sleeve, so I got rid of the standard OCBD cuff and added a two-button mitered cuff.

I also eliminated the chest pocket and back pleats. The final shirt is more usable to me. Worn by itself, it looks dressier. It also looks better with a jacket and tie since the collar stands up better and there is more space for a tie knot. Yet, it works just as well as the original when worn casually with jeans, and it's just as durable.

Thoughts? Have I created something that shouldn't be?
http://www.styleforum.net/t/72046/modified-brooks-brothers-ocbd-improvement-or-crime-against-nature/0_20


I just hope the shirt was a joke.

post #325 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollotrader View Post


I just hope the shirt was a joke.

post #326 of 436
Interestingly, this Huntsman fox hunting jacket with the curved seam back detail was posted on the vintage thread.

http://www.styleforum.net/t/328632/the-official-vintage-clothing-and-accessories-thread/150_30#post_6083877



post #327 of 436
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zbromer View Post

I was thinking more about Taub's coat with the regular yoke, as opposed to the asymmetrical version. I'm guessing most people wouldn't pick up on that detail.

Also, if people (outside of this forum) aren't picking up on foo's changes, are they picking up on the connotation of sportiness and casualness of a buttondown shirt of which he spoke at all? Probably not. A yolk, symmetrical or not, is just a detail that the coat's owner thinks looks good. I'm not sure there's any intent of the owner to convey anything to the public.

I think many people know a buttondown is more casual than a non-buttondown collar. Certainly those who wear shirts, ties, etc. Anyway, the point I was making earlier isn't that everyone understands classic menswear archetypes and signals. It's that those who bother to familiarize themselves with classic menswear will. So, the more pertinent question is, do you--as someone reasonably familiar with the idiom--understand a buttondown is a more casual sort of collar?

And yes, I understand the Taub yoke is simply a "fun" detail stapled on top of a classic form. That's why I think it's bad. Conceptually, there's really no difference between it and a Loony Tunes tie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollotrader View Post

I just hope the shirt was a joke.

Nope. What's funny about it.
post #328 of 436
Foo - regarding your coat, don't try and put it into a corner by attaching classic names to it. It's too unique for that. It will forever simply be known as The Foo Coat and we all know that.
post #329 of 436

Those are side panels.  All body coats, i.e. dress coat and morning coats are cut like that.  Rarely seen nowadays except on military uniforms.  Patrol jackets, mess jackets, tunics and service jackets for certain regiments are all cut with curved side panels and waist seams, which allows for a closer fit.  I believe the earliest lounge suits were also cut like that.  If you watch Jude Law in Sherlock Holmes, his tweed suit has side panels as well.  Its far more difficult to make than a two piece back.  I would only ask a world class tailor to make a coat with side panels today.

post #330 of 436
It's actually a Fooster Originated on the UWS not Ireland.

There has always been someone on Saville Row that stretches the norms and plays with proportions and shapes, Nutter, Boateng, Taub. Some consumers see the Row as one the most boring places on earth, averse to innovation and these guys offer an alternative.

In the 90"s I made an outercoat in a very light weight that was basically just a shell. Totally made in a shirt construction. An outer wear length shirt jacket so to speak. Shirt collar, 3 button front, slash pockets, not one piece of lining, very simple. The beauty of this piece, to me, was how it rendered a different shape or style by what you wore under the coat.
If you wore a suit jacket the coat took on the shape of the jacket shoulder. If you wore it over a sweater it looked more casual. It was a very simple piece.

Show it to 10 individuals. 4 would get it and love it. 4 wouldn't grasp or care about the concept. 2 would want to embellish it with epaulets, belts, cuffs, etc., redefine it and make it something else entirely. Those last two would gravitate towards Taub.

I don't think Taub is trying to redefine classic menswear. It's like women's couture. It shows imagination and possibilities. It showcases new ideas and techniques. It appeals to those who want to dress in nonconformity and wear cutting edge thoughts on design and the unconventional. I have had clients in this category. To some it comes across as bad taste, innovation and creativity to others. Point is, it's not good or bad but unique, catering to it's singular audience.

Are Taub's design sold to anyone or are they conceptual pieces? Probably both. Some don't see value in anything that isn't unique. It's just the way some approach and value these things.

Foo's coat is a collaboration piece. If you watched O'Mast the first part of the video described this. Custom clothing as a dialogue of client and tailor. What is successful on Foo's coat is that he is wearing the coat made in accordance to his sense of proportions but executed well by Rubinacci that the coat doesn't overwhelm Foo. There are things I question and would want to experiment with on this coat but I think it works.
Taub seems to incorporate lines from women's wear. Last week I was in the Tom Ford store and there were tons of menswear details in the women's line. Similar to Alexander McQueens work. Taub seems to be doing the reverse.
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