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Best bespoke commission ever? I think so. *** PICTURES ADDED FOR THOSE LACKING IMAGINATION - Page 21

post #301 of 436
I think you're not really appreciating the arbitrariness of a many of the things you say, ie: wearing only Plaza lasted longwings is an 'ok' idiosyncrasy, yet having a curved yoke isn't. And how much of an idiosyncrasy is having a curved yoke anyway? We know the style is acceptable within the greater canon (see Western coats), so is it that much of a leap to adopt a feature of an accepted garment and apply it to to another piece? And what if someone found a picture of such a coat? Then would it be ok?

I guess it comes down to this: I think you believe that is a much more cohesive and defined canon of classic menswear than there is. The reason I mentioned the hundreds of different configurations and styles of overcoats that can be considered 'classic' is because of this. Clearly the tailors who were first innovating and making the garments that developed into what you believe is the classic menswear canon were much less restrictive than you have become.

Finally, you're right that a button down collar suggests a certain casualness, but I would also argue that having a curved yolk also suggests something -- both garments are conversant, and I would describe neither act as 'functional.'
post #302 of 436
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teger View Post

I think you're not really appreciating the arbitrariness of a many of the things you say, ie: wearing only Plaza lasted longwings is an 'ok' idiosyncrasy, yet having a curved yolk isn't. And how much of an idiosyncrasy is having a curved yoke anyway? We know the style is acceptable within the greater canon (see Western coats), so is it that much of a leap to adopt a feature of an accepted garment and apply it to to another piece? And what if someone found a picture of such a coat? Then would it be ok?

And I think you are just being argumentative in treating the disparity between a Barrie-lasted and Plaza-lasted longwing as comparable to the disparity between Western, cowboy-style suiting and an English overcoat. The rest of your discussion hinges on that fallacious premise.
post #303 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

And I think you are just being argumentative in treating the disparity between a Barrie-lasted and Plaza-lasted longwing as comparable to the disparity between Western, cowboy-style suiting and an English overcoat. The rest of your discussion hinges on that fallacious premise.

As Baron pointed out, when you're describing a curved yoke as 'objectively ugly' than it's difficult to have a conversation with you about any of this. As I said in my first post, your line of argument here just screams '19th century positivism!' to me, especially read with your explanation of modernism.
post #304 of 436
Thread Starter 
You ignored my definition of ugly in the context.
post #305 of 436
Oh no I understand the context, but I still think such a blanket pronouncement (or even the use of the word objectively) is wrong. Again, to rephrase: everything you're saying in this thread is through the filter of your very particular belief in what the canon of classic menswear is. I don't think your understanding of what constitutes this canon, which is extremely rigid, is shared by most, and thus must be acknowledged as very arbitrary. It's fine that your particular understanding guides your own purchases - and is true of most people - but the problem is when you cannot see outside of this understanding.
post #306 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post


Though, it's more about the collar style, fabric, and patch pockets I suppose. Those are what really define Ulsters for me.

+1. You asked me to say but this really nails it.
post #307 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

teacha.gif






From the LH blog:

I don’t want to bother anyone with what will be cool or not next winter season, I’m attending Pitti in florence this year and i will show up some new outfit that inspired me !!

Pay attention to my camel coat, no buttons, no breast pocket only one belt as Mr Richard Gere use to wear it in American Gigolo’ !!

I will post every night some new photos in order for all of you to enjoy it !

Best,

L.R.
post #308 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

What the hell would you say this overcoat is?

A modified, gentrified great coat? An Ulster or polo coat? An extended pea coat? An unnamable chimera? Interested to hear you thoughts and reasoning.

What is the difference between a "representation" and a "warranty" in a merger agreement?

I ask because there may have been a distinction 100 years ago. In 2013, there is no distinction that anyone can convincingly articulate.

That may very well be the case here. We might just be a living in an era where the only thing we can agree on is that your coat is an overcoat. The key is that it is aesthetically beautiful.
post #309 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post

Nice, deets please?

How about we let you do the talking, since you made it biggrin.gif

http://www.styleforum.net/t/212052/bespoke-overcoat/135#post_4935518
post #310 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaymanS View Post





From the LH blog:

I don’t want to bother anyone with what will be cool or not next winter season, I’m attending Pitti in florence this year and i will show up some new outfit that inspired me !!

Pay attention to my camel coat, no buttons, no breast pocket only one belt as Mr Richard Gere use to wear it in American Gigolo’ !!

I will post every night some new photos in order for all of you to enjoy it !

Best,

L.R.
Boom!
post #311 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

The button-down collar has a defined place in our clothing culture. It has certain connotations, chiefly that it is more sporting and casual than other collars one would wear with a tie. Hence, if I want to make my suit a little more casual, I might select a buttondown collar.

What about your Modified Brooks Brothers OCBD? You "redesigned" a classic menswear piece. Double-button collar, French placket, two-button mitered cuffs, no chest pocket, and no back pleats. Is your, largely, cosmetic redesign of a classic item really that different from Taub's cosmetic redesign? I find your modification of a classic item more radical than his. And that's not a knock. I liked some of the modifications enough that I actually ripped-off some of your tweaks to make my own Modified Modified Brooks Brothers OCBD. I realize that my version is not classic, and I don't really care. I just like the way it looks.

Here's part of the original post for those interested:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

So, I decided to give Brooks Brothers' made-to-measure program another try--but this time, I implemented some modifications to the classic format.



To make the collar higher and improve the collar roll, I had them implement a two-button collar. The old, single-button collar tended to flatten on my neck; this one stays up and looks better with a jacket. In the interest of making the shirt dressier, I also replaced the standard placket with a French placket (or 'no placket', if you prefer).



I've never liked the way a rounded barrel cuff looks poking out of a jacket sleeve, so I got rid of the standard OCBD cuff and added a two-button mitered cuff.

I also eliminated the chest pocket and back pleats. The final shirt is more usable to me. Worn by itself, it looks dressier. It also looks better with a jacket and tie since the collar stands up better and there is more space for a tie knot. Yet, it works just as well as the original when worn casually with jeans, and it's just as durable.

Thoughts? Have I created something that shouldn't be?
http://www.styleforum.net/t/72046/modified-brooks-brothers-ocbd-improvement-or-crime-against-nature/0_20
post #312 of 436
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaymanS View Post

What is the difference between a "representation" and a "warranty" in a merger agreement?

I just assumed lawyers like using extra words.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaymanS View Post

I ask because there may have been a distinction 100 years ago. In 2013, there is no distinction that anyone can convincingly articulate.

That may very well be the case here. We might just be a living in an era where the only thing we can agree on is that your coat is an overcoat. The key is that it is aesthetically beautiful.

Perhaps. I'm glad you like my coat.

I just wish it had a name. frown.gif
post #313 of 436
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zbromer View Post

What about your Modified Brooks Brothers OCBD? You "redesigned" a classic menswear piece. Double-button collar, French placket, two-button mitered cuffs, no chest pocket, and no back pleats. Is your, largely, cosmetic redesign of a classic item really that different from Taub's cosmetic redesign? I find your modification of a classic item more radical than his. And that's not a knock. I liked some of the modifications enough that I actually ripped-off some of your tweaks to make my own Modified Modified Brooks Brothers OCBD. I realize that my version is not classic, and I don't really care. I just like the way it looks.

Here's part of the original post for those interested:
http://www.styleforum.net/t/72046/modified-brooks-brothers-ocbd-improvement-or-crime-against-nature/0_20

Yes, I think my modified OCBD reflects a totally different species of change.

Everything I did to that shirt comes from classic shirtdom. I didn't invent anything new. Also, the modifications were each motivated by functionality and/or pre-determined meanings within classic menswear. The collar must be double-buttoned to accommodate greater height (which, oddly, looks better on my neck). It also keeps the collar roll standing high. French plackets are dressier and I wanted to make a dressier shirt. Chest pockets have always been optional on OCBDs. Eliminating back pleats improved the fit on me.

Mitered cuffs were also meant to make the shirt a little dressier, but I realize they may actually be no more dressy than standard barrel cuffs. Still, I didn't create a new cuff shape. I just drew from the existing gene pool.

Now, I might be wrong about some of those things. But the point is, they are there for you to debate. The reasoning is grounded in the common language of classic menswear that you and I share.
post #314 of 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by zbromer View Post

What about your Modified Brooks Brothers OCBD? You "redesigned" a classic menswear piece. Double-button collar, French placket, two-button mitered cuffs, no chest pocket, and no back pleats. Is your, largely, cosmetic redesign of a classic item really that different from Taub's cosmetic redesign? I find your modification of a classic item more radical than his. And that's not a knock. I liked some of the modifications enough that I actually ripped-off some of your tweaks to make my own Modified Modified Brooks Brothers OCBD. I realize that my version is not classic, and I don't really care. I just like the way it looks.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

The biggest difference I can think of is that most casual observers would not necessarily pick up on foo's changes, where many more people would probably easily spot that an asymmetrical back yoke on an otherwise classic overcoat is something unusual. The asymmetrical yoke is much more overt, even if it is less radical.
post #315 of 436
the assymetrical yoke is obviously weird , and I don't particularly like it either.

But the rounded yoke lining up with the seams on the arms is not very radical at all. I think more people would notice a two button button-down than the yoke on the back of the Taub great coat.
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